Hello comrades!

I think it’s important for our comrades to have a safe place where they can ask questions about trans identities and trans issues in good faith.

The first step in garnering support is education, however asking every single trans person to constantly take on the burden of educator is, frankly, ridiculous, especially when so often the questions are not being asked in good faith, and there are very real consequences to the spread of misinformation.

As such, I know that there are likely comrades here who have questions they have been too scared to ask, or feel like it would be inappropriate to pose to some stranger.

Trans or questioning comrades are also welcome to ask questions here, of course, and are welcome to answer any questions they feel comfortable answering. The thing about the trans experience is that it is different for everyone. We all have different material conditions, we all have different interactions with ourselves and the world around us, and so, of course, there is no universal truth that governs what it means to be trans.

I can’t guarantee that we’ll have an answer for everything, and I can’t guarantee that the answers we do have will be satisfactory, but I can guarantee that as long as you are asking out of a genuine desire to inform yourself and learn more, then I will do my best to engage with you as a comrade and an ally.

  • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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    132 years ago

    Example question:

    I don’t want to date a trans person. Does that mean I’m a transphobe?

    No. No it doesn’t. While, if you get down into, the reason you don’t want to date a trans person is likely due to internalized transphobia, in the end, who you want to date is entirely your own business.

    Trans people are not trying to force anyone to date them. That is rhetoric being pushed in order to make people uncomfortable with us and turn people against our very real desire for access to medical care and the same rights as everyone else.

    The more important question is how and why you bring up the topic of not wanting to date a trans person. When there is a conversation about trans people struggling for access to hormones, and someone chimes in with how they’re not really transphobic they just don’t want to date one, you have to question: what is the motive?

    When a trans woman is murdered by her boyfriend, and people say, “I wouldn’t date a trans person at all,” consider: the stigma against dating trans people can often have violent and disastrous results. Fear of being outed, the ostracization that comes after being outed; these are very real instigators for anti-trans domestic violence. So what effect could mentioning that you personally would never date a trans person have in a conversation about anti-trans domestic violence?

    Not wanting to date a trans person isn’t the hallmark of a transphobe, but it is a talking point that is often leveraged against us to make us seem predatory, or that we have a vested interest in sublimating your autonomy to date whomever you’d like. So when that perfectly reasonable statement, “I don’t want to date a trans person” gets repeated, in conversations that have nothing to do with it, when no one was asked, you have to wonder. What purpose is it serving? What narrative is being built? Because that’s when you start to see patterns of using innocuous, personal sentiments to create a larger anti-trans picture.

  • commiespammer
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    62 years ago

    how do you feel trans rights are represented (sorry if I use the wrong words, I always feel the right word is on the tip of my tongue) in countries like Cuba and China? I live in America, so I’d like to know.

    • @afellowkid@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      I would say that things are going very well in Cuba, and going decently well in China. This is my point of view as a Spanish-speaking trans Westerner who currently lives in East Asia.

      It’s important not to remove either of these countries from their historical and cultural context. The trans (and general LGBT) struggle in each of these countries is emerging out of their own unique contexts, which include their own local forms of patriarchy and heteronormativity as well as colonially-imposed forms, as well as the worldwide scientific approach that has not been totally free of incorrect theories and practices. On top of that, both countries have to deal with sabotage and concern trolling from the imperial core trying to use things like “LGBT issues” to demonize them.

      In Cuba, there are many clear measures going on to address trans (and general LGBT) rights. For example there is the government organization CENESEX, which promotes sex education and LGBT rights, and, as far as I am aware, Cuba has had legal, government-funded sexual reassignment surgery available since 2008. Currently, they are reviewing the Family Code, which is a suite of progressive laws about gender, sexuality, family rights, etc. including topics like same-sex-marriage. Whether or not it passes, it’s clear that the Cuban government is taking trans rights seriously, and that the Cuban public is engaged in serious discussion over the topic.

      I have less information about specific laws in China. In 2017, the Comprehensive Gender Dysphoria Clinic was opened. In 2021, The Children’s Hospital of Fudan University opened a clinic serving transgender children and teenagers in Shanghai.

      Some reports I have read (from 2017 and 2020) that survey trans and other LGBT populations gives me the impression that the struggles faced by Chinese trans people are nothing out of the ordinary, at least in my view. They face opposition from their families due to traditional values, face some difficulties in accessing hormones and surgeries, and discomfort in certain public places, especially bathrooms. A majority of Chinese trans people who get sexual reassignment surgery receive it in China, but a fair percentage of them report that they experienced something negative during the process, whether that would be discrimination, or a medical issue. However, overall, I did not see any indication that extreme or horrific levels of discrimination are rampant in medical settings. It sounds fairly comparable to medical ignorance and outdated requirements I have personally seen in certain places in the West as well as personally seen in other parts of East Asia. I think also that people feel dissatisfied around the requirements/process for legal gender change, which is a common issue faced by trans people worldwide, as in the places where legal gender change is allowed, it generally includes the requirement to have had SRS, which is in contradiction with what most trans communities seem to end up wanting the law to be.

      So, overall, it seems trans rights are progressing in both China and Cuba, within their own cultural/historical contexts, and at a reasonable pace on par with other countries that share similar backgrounds culturally and historically.

      More details about China

      There is this 2017 Chinese Transgender Population Survey Report. Their survey was, of course, looking at the problems faced by transgender people in China, so keep in mind that this is a look at China’s problems rather than successes on this issue. Also keep in mind it’s from 2017. From what I recall from the report, it seems that cultural traditions around family structure is a big struggle for a lot of trans and other LGBT people in China. While access to hormones and surgery is not completely satisfactory, it is available, but the trans community of China would like access to be improved.

      Additionally, here is a 2020 national survey about general LGBT discrimination in China. Once again, it seems that traditional views on the family are one of the most dominant social problems facing China’s LGBT community, which is something that will just have to be solved through ideological struggle, education of family, support groups, etc. I believe this study also found that, consistent with other similar studies, public acceptance of LGBT people tends to improve when economic conditions improve.

      More details about Cuba

      Cuba has CENESEX, which is their government organization for promoting sex education and LGBT rights and education.

      CENESEX stresses acceptance of sexual diversity and has attracted international attention in recent years for its campaigns for the rights of transgender persons, including the recognition of an individual’s gender identity, regardless of birth sex, and provision of state-funded sexual reassignment surgery.

      As far as I am aware, the state-funded sexual reassignment surgery was passed in 2008, although I haven’t looked into the details of its implementation.

      Currently, the Family Code referendum is about to be reviewed, which includes things like same-sex marriage. Personally I have not looked deeply into the specific propositions in the Family Code, but same-sex marriage is a helpful thing for trans people, as well as the whole LGBT community. In any case, public consultations about the Family Code earlier this year “showed that approximately 62% of Cuban citizens are in favor of updating the constitution to provide for more inclusive legislation.”

      Whether it passes or not, it’s evident that the Cuban government is taking trans and all LGBT rights seriously and has taken measures to address the things that the local LGBT community has been asking for. Now it is up to the public engage in debate and the struggle between old ideas and new ideas. That same article says: "Despite the strong political support and the positive results from the public consultation process, the new legislation still faces staunch opposition from religious groups, who were successful in overturning a similar referendum in 2019. "

      • if you don’t mind, what country do you live in east asia? what has the process been to acquire hormones in a foreign country, has it been hard at all? do you know what the process is like in different countries throughout east asia, or how i could research that?

          • thank you so much for your experience!! as i ask more people and do more research it seems like the kind of thing that isn’t a big roadblock or anything, but at the same time is important enough that i 100% want to make sure it wouldn’t be a problem.

    • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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      42 years ago

      Comrade @fellowkid did a great job answering this question for you. I’m more familiar with trans issues in Cuba than I am in China, where, as was mentioned, hormone therapy and gender confirmation surgery is provided by the state.

      An additional mention of the soon-to-be update to the Family Code, they’re aiming to recognize all forms of family units. This coverage extends far pass same-sex marriage, and would consider the legal classification of a marriage to include, for instance, platonic unions and polyamorous partnerships.

      Cuba is a world-leader in the protection and forwarding of trans rights, and provides more reliant and consistent access to medical care than most imperial core nations.

      As for China, it’s been making huge strides lately in increasing access to medical care for trans individuals. There was a study published in BMC Public Health regarding discrimination and perceived discrimination of various LGBT individuals in China. It largely found that the biggest hurdle to LGBT acceptance is from family, where queer participants ranked discrimination from family to be the most prevalent, which coincided with heterosexual participants being least accepting of LGBT people in their own family, but largely accepting of LGBT people otherwise.

      This same study also found that gay men and trans people are the most likely to stay in the closet. However, medical interactions were found in this study to be the least discriminatory, which is incredibly heartening, as access to medical care is the first and most crucial stumbling block on the road to trans acceptance. China has been taking a very science-based stance on this (unlike certain anglo countries cough cough) and has been pushing for medical care regardless of cultural acceptance.

      It was also found that an increase in a region’s economic prosperity led to a decrease in LGBT discrimination, meaning that as people’s lives improved they were less bothered by the gays down the street.

      Last year a documentary “A Day of Trans” directed by trans filmmaker Yennefer Fang released, which interviews four trans individuals of different generations. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1239389.shtml

      One of the people interviewed, a trans man, won a discrimination case against his employer back in 2016, when he became a public face in the fight for systemic protections.

      In 1995 Jin Xing was the first person to openly have gender confirmation surgery. She’s a famous dancer, choreographer, and tv presenter that is shown nation-wide, and has been since before most western countries would allow a trans person on tv as anything more than a punchline about degeneracy and prostitution.

      • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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        42 years ago

        In Cuba, the first trans “diagnosis” was in 1972, a 23 year old trans man who lived openly as a man. In response to this, the Federation of Cuban Women established the National Task Force for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Gender Identity Disorders in 1979 coordinated by the National Working Group for Sex Education (now CENESEX).

        The Task Force was a multidisciplinary association of medical professionals who provided counselling, hormones, and gender confirmation surgeries. They also lobbied for changes to laws regarding trans people, and by 1997 Cubans were able to change their names and photos on their government IDs.

        From the start, their belief was that the right to health care superseded any other arguments against the inclusion and treatment of trans individuals.

        Because the task force was initially proposed by the Federation of Cuban Women, in Cuba the struggle for queer rights is seen as inherently a fight against colonial patriarchy and instilled machismo. Liberation for queers is part and parcel with the liberation of women from the rigid constructs of cisheteronormative gender binaries which demand a rigid idea of the separation of masculinity and femininity.

        In 2001 Cuba released the first National Strategy for Comprehensive Attention to Transsexual People. In order to fulfill the constitutional promise of health care, the Strategy included developing integrated clinical and mental health care for gender diverse individuals, setting transsexual research priorities, designing public education, implementing sensitivity training, and proposing legal mechanism to protect social and civil rights of trans people.

        The Strategy mandates intersectoral cooperation among the Ministries of Health and the Interior, Supreme Court, Attorney General’s office, and social and political organizations such as the FMC, labor unions, and neighborhood block associations. Organizationally, it is coordinated by the National Commission for Comprehensive Attention to Transsexual People, established in 2005.

        Resolution 126 issued by the Ministry of Public Health in 2004 mandated comprehensive health services for transsexual people in Cuba, including establishment of a specialized clinic to provide integrated clinical care such as psychological counseling, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery.

        Resolution 126 paved the way for a Commission-directed clinic to be established in Havana. Health care provision here, both free and voluntary, is based on two fundamental tenets: first, to reinforce the bio-psycho-social approach of Cuban health care through direct services and inter-consultation by a multi-disciplinary team that works with each person; and second, to create a safe, nonjudgmental space where privacy and confidentiality are protected by professionals trained in transgender issues

        This is not to say that Cuba is perfect. There is of course still a large cultural aversion to trans identities. The process of transitioning itself is also flawed: it involves two years of extensive interviewing and counselling where a committee of multidisciplinary specialists confirm whether or not you are trans, meaning the Commission ultimately decides on whether an individual should be “diagnosed” as trans.

        After the first gender confirmation surgery, there was public outcry, and the surgeries were suspended for a time. The individual who had the surgery was the subject of derision, and was kicked out of their family home. However, Cuba has come a long way, and is without a doubt a world leader in trans care.

        The Commission (with CENESEX) also supports the declassification of transsexual as a mental illness, a declassification that may combat some of the stigma, and will also improve the process of treatment seeking, whereby it would no longer be necessary for the Commission to “diagnose” whether a patient seeking transition is trans.

  • @afellowkid@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    I’m going to repost a reply I made to a couple people a while back asking about trans youth healthcare. I’ll post the questions I saw, edited for clarity/brevity.

    Q1: Does having doubts about the push for things like gender reassignment surgery under 16 years make me a nazbol/redfash?

    Q2: I am confused about these puberty blockers. Are they not dangerous? The human body is a bit tricky, and it doesn’t seem prudent to just forcefully halt a process, especially one as complex as what happens during puberty.

    I really have never met anyone advocating for sex reassignment surgery for teenagers. Maybe someone advocates for this, but I have never heard of someone advocating that (Edit: @seanchai mentioned in the reply below that there have, in fact, been some teenagers age 16 years and up who have successfully advocated for their personal right to access surgery, although this is rare).

    Also, there are a variety of different surgery options for trans people, not really one universal surgery. Some trans people will get no surgery, some might get only 1, some might get a few, depending on what they need/want.

    To be clear, usually the medical steps that a teenager might take could be puberty blockers, which is a hormone-blocking medicine (NOT surgery) that will just hold off the kid’s natural puberty from happening for a while, so they can have more time to think about what they want to do (for example by testing out their gender presentation before taking more medical steps).

    Puberty blocking medicine has been in use already for about 40 years, for children who start their puberty too early. Now it can also be used for children who, upon beginning puberty, start experiencing or continue to experience gender dysphoria. The medicine is not used on children who have not begun puberty.

    Once usage stops, puberty will resume. “It’s more like a pause. If we stop the medicine, puberty can restart,” says Dr. Cartaya. She adds that once it begins again, the body will go through puberty that’s associated with the sex assigned at birth. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-are-puberty-blockers/

    Children can go off these blockers and resume their natural puberty when they want to, or, when they are a bit older (I believe in the U.S., it’s after 16) they may start hormone therapy that gives them the opposite sex’s hormones.

    The article linked above notes: “Puberty blockers are generally safe when used on a short-term basis. They’ve even been used to treat conditions like prostate cancer, breast cancer and endometriosis.”

    The main ill effect of puberty blockers is that it can limit bone mineral density, so the child’s doctor will monitor the child’s vitamin D levels and make sure they receive enough calcium.

    If a teen is taking cross-sex hormones, then they will go through the puberty of that sex for the most part. They can also stop doing that if they want to, and let their body’s natural puberty take over. Hormone treatment has some permanent effects but it also has many reversible effects. It is generally taken on a daily or weekly basis, and changes are incremental. This leaves a lot of time for a person to determine whether they are comfortable with the changes they are having. If they stop, there will be some changes that remain, but also many that will go away.

    I can imagine that some older teenagers might want to receive some of the surgeries that exist, but I imagine for most of those surgeries, they wouldn’t be allowed to do it, not only because of their young age but also because it may not be viable. For example for some surgeries you actually need to have been on hormones for a long amount of time, or you need to have grown certain body parts to a certain degree. I won’t get into it because it would be beside the point. I think most people will not be having surgery until after they are legal adults, although I imagine some teens would want to pursue this and might succeed (Edit: As @seanchai mentioned below, there have been some cases of teens 16 and up who successfully advocated for their personal right to surgery).

    As a final note, when it comes to doctors doing irreversible, mutilating, non-consensual surgeries on children, this is actually the reality that happens currently to many intersex children, who are often mutilated soon after birth, often without even their parents knowledge, or their parents are pressured into it by the doctor and often keep it secret from their children. Many intersex children grow up with strange unexplained scars, symptoms, and signs of their intersex condition and are lied to about their bodies. Sometimes at puberty they begin to experience the “wrong” puberty, or a “atypical” puberty. Sometimes they don’t find out about their condition until well into adulthood, and of course many may live their whole life never knowing. Some intersex people are also trans/some trans people are also intersex and there are some areas where these two communities can have overlapping issues. However, intersex issues are often overshadowed by the current discourse around trans issues, and people can sometimes incorrectly or opportunistically mix the two community’s different problems up. The mutilation of intersex children’s natural genitalia and the lying and secret-keeping done to them is a deeply traumatizing phenomenon for the intersex community and I encourage people to learn more about it if you are concerned about the issue of irreversible genital surgery on children, which plagues the intersex community, who often find that the surgeries done to their natural bodies were not only un-consensual but also were entirely medically unnecessary and damaging. (More about this here and here)

    • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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      32 years ago

      Thank you so much for this thoughtful answer. There have, in fact, been some teenagers (16 years and up) who have successfully advocated for their personal right to access surgery, however this is rare, and in general when people speak of surgery it is for adults.

      Many gender confirmation surgeries are already currently available to cis people as well, including some surgeries that are available to cis people who are not yet adults, and yet very little, if any, emphasis is placed on this when people look to demonize trans surgery access.

      I appreciate your inclusion of surgery performed nonconsensually on intersex individuals, often times as young as at birth. It is important for people to note that, in the US for instance, the current rash of anti-trans medical bills contain explicit exemptions for intersex individuals. Meaning they want to ban the consensual, sought after surgeries of trans adults, but leave in place the nonconsensual, often secret surgeries performed on intersex individuals, which makes it abundantly clear that the bills have nothing to do with protecting the “sanctity” of the natural-born body, and everything to do with attacking the queer, trans, and intersex communities.

      • @afellowkid@lemmygrad.ml
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        22 years ago

        Thank you for the clarification about cases of some individual 16+ teenagers pursuing surgery. I’ll edit my post to reflect this.

  • hello trans folk, i support you all in your struggle to exist freely and gain access to the healthcare that you need. dysphoria sucks and no one deserves to experience it. since i have at least a basic understanding of trans struggle and healthcare, my question is maybe a little unexpected in this thread:

    in my personally-adjacent experiences or stories about much of the western online trans community, i have heard of schisms that unfortunately divide an already-marginalized group of people who should all support each other in their common struggle. for example, passing people with access to hormones/surgery (often of privileged socio-economic status, but not always) who resent those who do not pass for making transness appear less “normal” or more “weird” to basically what amounts to the patriarchy and patriarchal structures. on the opposite side of this schism, there are those who do not have access to trans healthcare and resent those who do pass for a variety of things, perhaps including a perceived or real protection from anti-trans violence. i’ve heard that the interaction between these two groups can approach toxicity/hatred, and can become so intense that it then becomes alienating for anyone on the sidelines. this isn’t exactly a schism, but i’ve also heard that trans people can project their own dysphoria onto other trans people who they don’t see as passing, which can apparently be very toxic and unfortunate because it feels like everyone should just affirm each other

    another thing i’ve heard about is a divide between those who want to appeal to cis people by qualifying dysphoria as a mental illness that should be medically treated, and those who claim transness is less material but a vector of personal expression and that calling dysphoria a mental illness is the same basic framework that transphobes often use to justify banning things like puberty blockers (i.e. “transness is the mental illness and not dysphoria”).

    coming from both the perspective and experience of those who are trans and have likely interacted with these communities, and who approach things from the perspective of dialectical materialism:

    • do the schisms or issues i described actually exist in the broader trans community?
    • are there more (or different) such schisms or issues that exist in a similar vein within the community?
    • are any of the schisms warranted, and what are your opinions on them? i think of this in regards to people calling for a “unified left,” when that almost always means sacrificing strategy, tactics, and even ideology for a DoA unity: are there tactics and strategies for struggle against oppression that you think are better/preferable, or by the same token some that are DoA?
    • to the extent that such schisms/issues exist, would you or have you ever considered them toxic or alienating?
    • as MLists, how do you see the influence of liberalism and capitalism affecting the wider trans community, and these schisms/issues? are there similar issues within the MList trans community, or is it more unified and affirming?
    • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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      52 years ago

      There is, absolutely, friction between “stealth” trans individuals and the easily clockable, largely coming from a place of fear and a desire to assimilate (much like you see with gay culture, where “flamboyant” men are derided by the more “macho” types).

      The biggest “schism” as it were is the issue of transmedicalism. Transmedicalists have a very narrow definition of what it means to be trans, and subscribe to a belief that the “trans” story is one of being “trapped in the wrong body” (I’m not discounting this experience, merely asserting that it is not universal) and that there follows a linear path of transition. You get diagnosed with gender dysphoria, you get hormones, you get surgery, and then you live your life as ostensibly cis.

      To transmedicalists, those with a different path to transition, especially those who exist outside of the gender binary (think nonbinary, genderqueer, genderfluid, third gender, two spirit, etc) are a threat to the assimilationist agenda. This divide is often leveraged against the queer community, with transmedicalists being (marginally) accepted as the authorities, claiming a “scientific” basis for their viewpoints as the only medically correct definition of trans.

      Now, while these divides can be harmful to the trans community, I’d like to say from my personal experience that they exist largely online. That’s not to say people don’t hold these beliefs, and that’s not to say that these divisions aren’t blown up and used in social media to reinforce certain oppressive narratives. However, when it comes down to it, when you actually engage with the community, when you’re in trans spaces or working with trans organizations, you rarely encounter a divide so stark you can’t talk it out or at least work together.

      I’ve found then when actually surrounded by other queer people, even those few individuals who are staunchly transmedicalist online have a harder time comfortably voicing or enforcing such beliefs. It’s a stance that really exists as a way to ingratiate yourself with the anti-trans cis community (as if that will ever work) and not one that many people find support for in real life, queer spaces. All it tends to do is alienate you from other queer people, especially considering that more and more the trend is towards people rejecting binary gender roles altogether. Statistically, there is a rise in those identifying as gender diverse that is quickly outpacing those coming out in a more “traditional” trans identity.

      This is a result of wider education, and more people being made aware of the classist and colonial nature of the gender binary to begin with.

      Very roundabout answer here, sorry about that. But yeah, the schisms are real, they are damaging, but they tend to seem more dire and more ever-present online than they actually are out in the real world. Once you log off, you have to face that the average cis person barely considers trans people at all, the ones who do tend to be fixated and angry about your existence, and life is a hell of a lot easier when you can at least lean on other trans people for the bare minimum of “uses the right pronouns and also gets pissed at transphobia”

      • Seanchaí (she/her)OPM
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        32 years ago

        I also want to add that my experiences are largely informed by living in poverty and working alongside other impoverished queer people, and working in organizations that provide services in impoverished neighbourhoods. Affluent queer people are more likely to be stealth, or transmedicalist, largely because they have access to the treatments and expensive grooming habits that foster passing (I could really get into how I feel about passing as a concept but that’s another conversation). They also have more to lose by being rejected, and thus feel more pressure to find commonality with heterosexual norms.

        On average queer people in fact tend towards poverty (there are a variety of reasons for this) and as such don’t often have such access, which leads to very different understandings of what gender presentation is, and also leads to having radically different priorities. For impoverished queer people, the struggle for food, housing and medical treatment are paramount, and as such there tends to be more acceptance and solidarity with others, and less time and energy to focus on ultimately inconsequential divides.

        I also want to throw in, while I’m sort of on the subject, that people often equate working class or impoverished people with prejudice against queer people, and consider queer acceptance to be a bourgeoise value.

        In my personal experiences this has been the exact opposite. By nature of our common class struggle for the basic necessities of life, impoverished and working class heterosexuals have been more open and accepting of working alongside and building community with our queer organizations. Meanwhile, the liberal, “progressive” and affluent communities and organizations have been incredibly reticent about accepting us, and are much more likely to employ terf rhetoric.

        I also live in one of the poorest parts of my country, which just so happens to be one of the most gender diverse according to the 2020 census. I have strong doubts that this is a coincidence; rather, I believe that there is a link between poverty and a willingness to eschew the ruling class’s gender roles, which were crafted specifically as a means of elevating and securing the class interests of white men. (This is another subject I could talk a lot about)

        • thanks so much for your long and detailed response! lot of interesting things to mull over. it’s great to hear that to the extent that divides do exist they are less prominent IRL, especially when people have to struggle for their basic material needs.

      • @afellowkid@lemmygrad.ml
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        22 years ago

        Well said! I agree with your assessments here. I had tried to write a post about the transmedicalist issue, passing, classism, colonialism, etc. but couldn’t get my thoughts organized. Thank you for expressing it clearly!

    • @RedSquid@lemmygrad.ml
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      32 years ago

      So, not sure if I’d really describe it as a schism, but yes, resentful people do indeed exist for a variety of reasons. Personally, I am on the ‘not really passing to well’ side (I get ‘ma’amed’ about… 20% of the time I guess? Nowhere near enough for my liking) and I personally am deeply envious of those who have better access to healthcare than me, either through being more affluent or living in a place with the care, or simply being younger and coming out earlier. It’s a shame (albeit understandable) that some people let that envy they have turn into hatred. I can’t speak for the other side but I have seen people like that - essentially they are re-enacting the same attempts that the gay community went through (and is still undergoing tbh) to be ‘acceptable’ to the straights.

      In any case, I wouldn’t say it’s on the level of splits within the left, apart from the ‘should we fit in with the cissies’ thing. Personally, I say no, no marginalized group achieved liberation by being well behaved for their oppressors. But I’m not gonna have a fight with someone who just wants to stealth, so long as they leave me alone to be loudly and obnoxiously trans.

      Oh and in my experience, ML trans folks are just as toxic, fractured and annoying as other trans folks, possibly more as many have a tendency to want to be ‘right’ - ideological purity is a helluva drug. schniff

      • thanks for sharing your experience on passing and pass/not-pass resentment. i totally agree with the sentiment about how to achieve liberation, and the fact that you can’t blame people for just wanting to get by and live their best life. and that’s really surprising about the ML trans community, i wouldn’t have expected that although ofc there’s eventually going to be drama and contradictions within any community.

        • @RedSquid@lemmygrad.ml
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          22 years ago

          Yeah it’s sad, but the worst experiences I’ve had with other trans people (in terms of personal interactions) have been with MLs (or at least, claimed MLs). Like I said before, I think that, at least some of the time, it’s a genuine desire to be ‘doing the right thing’ or whatever, that twists into just being an asshole. Affects other “leftist” types and liberals too, but most of the libs aren’t trying to talk politics at you when you’re at a social event :P