I see many different interpretations about this.

But what did Deng Xiaoping in fact mean with this quote?

  • Free Palestine
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    222 years ago

    in the literal sense, Deng was saying that it didn’t matter if China strictly adhered to ML-MZT or if it incorporated markets. The goal of the revolution is to build socialism, and it could do it either way.

    But his argument was that the introduction of markets would strengthen China’s ability to build that revolution. Thusly, it shouldn’t matter if markets are introduced to China, as long as the revolution can still be built and defended, which MZT was failing at doing.

    • @CamaradaD@lemmygrad.ml
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      192 years ago

      I usually argue that, by expanding on Deng Xiaoping’s thought, China also managed to turn the tables and use Capitalism against Capitalism.

      • @CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml
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        102 years ago

        Which sheds some insight on why dogmatic, unprincipled, unmarxist opposition to industrial capitalism can act as a road block for understanding amd combating finance capitalism. There are so many people that get caught up in “capitalism is bad” that they stand in the way of socialist construction which is the heart of revolution. Its a kind of anti capitalism that reminds me of how libertarians hate cops because they gave them a speeding ticket instead of police being agents of capital/colonial state.

    • JucheBot1988
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      1 year ago

      Exactly, and this actually gets back to Marx’s original intent (as opposed to distortions of it by ultraleft dogmatists). From the manifesto:

      When people speak of the ideas that revolutionise society, they do but express that fact that within the old society the elements of a new one have been created, and that the dissolution of the old ideas keeps even pace with the dissolution of the old conditions of existence.

      And also:

      We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.

      The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

      Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

      These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

      Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

      1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
      2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
      3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
      4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
      5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
      6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
      7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
      8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
      9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
      10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c.

      This has modern China written all over it. Nowhere does Marx say “abolish everything capitalist immediately,” or even “every form of capitalist production is always and everywhere invalid.” What he says is that the state, with a power base in the working class and a proletarian ideology, works on an accelerated timeline to raise economic production and sharpen the contradictions already present in society.

    • In 1960, the Soviet Union ceased its aid to Albania, while China continued to provide vigorous assistance to Albania. In the spring of 1961, China provided hundreds of thousands of tons of grain and 250 million RMB in loans to Albania, and from 1954 to 1978, China provided more than 10 billion RMB in loans to Albania. Geng Biao, who was China’s ambassador to Albania, recalled: "China provided Albania with more than nine billion RMB in loans, and each Albanian could receive an average of four thousand RMB (at this time, China’s per capita annual income was only two hundred RMB). China helped Albania build a fertilizer plant with an annual output of 200,000 tons, far more than what Albania needed. China’s military aid to Albania exceeded Albania’s defense needs, but Albania took it for granted. “What you have, we must have,” Hoxha once said unabashedly. We ask for your help as a brother asks for his brother’s help. "When Vice Premier Li Xiannian visited Albania, he asked, “China has given you so much aid, when do you plan to return it?” The Albanians said they hadn’t thought about that question. Mohammad Ismail Shehu told Li Xiannian that Albania needed steel mills like China’s, a machinery industry, and Chinese help in developing offshore oil fields. China was not rich, and even food was scarce, but China still tried its best to provide assistance to Albania. Geng Biao recalls, “Driving on the roads in Albania in a car, the poles all around were built with high-quality steel pipes with Chinese aid, steel and cement were used to build martyrs’ monuments, and fertilizer that exceeded the demand was casually thrown on the ground.” Zhou Enlai’s security guard Qiao Jinwang recalled, "Albania visited China in 1961 because they believed that the aid given by China was not enough and that more was needed. The Albanians could not understand China’s difficulties during the Great Leap Forward and the two sides had a very unpleasant talk. China believed that Albania needed to learn to stand on its own feet. But China still ended up giving Albania five pieces of aid in 1962. "After 1969, China wanted to ease relations with the Soviet Union and normalize relations with the United States. Albania denounced China as a “revisionist country”, which did not sit well with Mao. However, in 1970, Albania still asked China for 3.2 billion RMB in aid, and China decided to provide a low-interest loan of 1.95 billion RMB. Albania asked China for a loan of 5 billion RMB for the period 1976-1980. China thought that it had already given Albania a huge amount of loans and therefore agreed to provide only 1 billion RMB. In 1978, China announced the termination of aid to Albania. In the same year, Albania declared China as its main enemy

    • 你差不多得啦,你知道中国人一般怎么看待阿尔巴尼亚和霍查吗?事先声明:以下并非我的观点,而是其他中国人的观点。阿尔巴尼亚毫不羞耻地向中国和苏联索要援助,当时中国人均生活水平比阿尔巴尼亚还差,霍查还跟中国要援助。最后还修了无数个碉堡,而不是用这些援助改善人民生活。霍查是个魔怔人,中国不给援助了就对中国开骂,毛泽东会见尼克松就被霍查说是“修正主义”。霍查也根本不打算还中国的贷款。在中国不论支持邓小平的还是反对邓小平的都没几个喜欢霍查的捏

    • 请你思考一下,霍查称“阿尔巴尼亚是唯一的真正的社会主义国家,其他的社会主义国家都是修正主义”那么有没有一种可能,阿尔巴尼亚才是真正的修正主义

    • You say this as if Deng conspired behind the backs of the people to betray the revolution instead of the people themselves conducting land reform experiments during a time of stagnation and dogma all to insure their own survival and build an opportunity for prosperity. Deng and the Party defended the people from dogmatists and provided China with an opportunity to not only continue the socialist construction project but also to face off against its own dogmas that fed stagnation.

        • @CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          Thats what socialist countries do by definition. Every socialist country is a socialist project that is under construction. Socialism is not created by fiat or by treaty. Socialist construction is the longest and most difficult phase of revolution. It is the phase that no western marxist, and few socialists at all, have even reached. This is why Deng says China must cross the brook by feeling for the stones, socialism is constructed under a fog of difficulty and ignorance that is only barely illuminated by the Marxism, our candle in the dark. No dogma that developed during a revolutionary war and its aftermath is going to be able to carry the revolution forward. This is why socialist construction is so difficult and why lambasting those (like the Deng and the Chinese people) who have been on the ground trying to accomplish unprecedented achievements as revisionists oftentimes just feeds dogma and enforces stagnation.