Exactly three years ago, Mozilla had made this wonderful blog post in which they solemnly announced a prize of $2 million to whoever comes up with a fully functional decentralized system. And while there have been some entries on the linked award website, none of them can be called fully …


Hangounts (GoogleTalk) was an XMPP compatible system - you could federate with it and I did that in the past, but since they abandoned the federation: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-moves-away-from-the-xmpp-open-messaging-standard/

Also web is decentralized, internet is also, e-mail, Mastodon and many other things. The reasons for not using standards in commercial world is vendor lock-in, moving risks from companies onto people, control over people and gaining IP protections from law.

This Hope 2020 presentation from Cory Doctorow sums this “interoperability” issue up perfectly: https://archive.org/details/hopeconf2020/20200725_1600_Keynote_Cory_Doctorow.mp4

Shouldn’t it be painfully apparent that implementing standards in existing software should be a win-win for everybody?

I don’t think it’s apparent. Customers would sure appreciate this specific case, and many developers, but I can imagine Facebook not wanting people to message from WhatsApp to Telegram. If a company’s strategy is to get as many people as possible on their platforms, being open isn’t going to do them good.


What would happen if WhatsApp user was able to message to a Telegram user? Is there a chance of that user migrating to Telegram too? But that can happen as it is even without XMPP or any standards.


It’s possible of course, but have you noticed how difficult it is to get people to move on to a new communication platform? And one of the reasons often is “but all my contacts are on the other network” and then “but I don’t want to run multiple chat apps”.

Btw, somewhat related, I discovered a friend has been sending me—rarely—messages on WhatsApp to my mobile number.

This is all great and well except I’ve never used the app. So they just get sent but nobody (but I guess FB and NSA ;-)) reads them.


I did that to a friend too.


Exactly as you said, it would be, but only for users. Not for the companies behind it. Therefore it cannot be a win-win solution for everyone.


So any E2EE by default XMPP apps?

Most XMPP apps today use OMEMO encryption. It’s the main reason I can’t get two different clients (mobile, desktop) to play together nicely


I’ve had reasonable success with Conversations (Android) and Gajim (Linux) to play nicely. About the only hiccup, if you can call it that, was that if I send a message on Conversations, I can’t see it in Gajim and vice versa. It simply says “This message was sent from another device”. Then again, I think it’s supposed to work like that.

Check out Are we OMEMO yet? for more options.

It’s on purpose? Ugh, if I can’t see the conversations the same on both devices, it’s useless to me.

you can see the conversations the same on both devices. I say you should use Dino and Conversations

I’d say Matrix is one of those candidate.


Is E2EE not there in Jitsi?


Last I know, it’s experimental. Looking forward to seeing it implemented


“Decentralization is the natural state” isn’t accurate at all, even if I want the same world this author does


I am writing my PhD thesis about the ignorance related to IP/PBX and software in general - it is used only because it is cheaper - and all the deep functions - and standard - that are not being used and would increase productivity if CEOs and other directors would know enough about tech or would be humble enough to ask for tech advice. An now they are, 20 years later, being offered as “new” apps when they would have them for free for years, and without being spied.

Asterisk + Kamailio, that are FOSS can provide all the phones - and computers, being multi device - in the world with a better messaging app and even an alternative phone number method, that would make pocket computers (actual smartphones) only need internet and become small tablets without the phone hardware - and better with future 5G flat internet rates -.

And add services as “click to call” and “click to video call” to web pages, also directories to act as yellow - business - and white - people - pages.

I suppose that a crowdfunding to make a FOSS service and pay the hosting and monetize with adds / cheap subscriptions the service as others do.

That is an idea that crossed my - rare - mind did not cross any other one in the world with more knowledge to make it possible.

Future Me

everyone wants to create their own walled gardens

No shit Sherlock…


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