Ban of Panzerfaust

I am curious about the reason why they were banned.

@SirLotsaLocks
link
131Y

PSA for people who think this is banning someone from the whole of lemmy or think it’s like getting banned on reddit.

This is an instance of lemmy. Every instance can have it’s own rules and admins, you aren’t banned from every lemmy instance just this one. You can go and do whatever got you banned here on an instance that allows it. Right now there aren’t a lot of busy instances but in the future there probably will be and that’s kind of a risk you take getting on the nerves of the admins lol.

@couldbeanybody
creator
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31Y

Thanks for the reminder you are right!

@PamalaRobida
banned
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11Y

Ya reddit 0.1? hurt the admins feelings and get banned? Good luck getting this place to catch on. look at .win which is growing the fastest, you need to be completely tolerant to other ideas and people to grow platform.

@SirLotsaLocks
link
11Y

bruh thats the whole point of lemmy and federation… just make your own free speech instance if you think you can somehow keep it from becoming an alt right shithole. Also lol .win is not tolerant.

@wraptile
banned
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21Y

Except Lemmy isn’t federated yet so that’s not true at all.

@SirLotsaLocks
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1
edit-2
1Y

It’s in testing, enterprise.lemmy.ml and ds9.lemmy.ml are

@wraptile
banned
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2
edit-2
1Y

yes but this instance isn’t meaning you you get banned you cannot export or redirect your profile so “lemmy is federated” claim is completely irrelevant in this case. Might as well say “lemmy is open source so user is not banned from used the software just this server”

The value of decentralization is the fact that your profile isn’t held hostage anywhere.

@SirLotsaLocks
link
01Y

Thats fair, I guess it is a bit early to say that but I do still think it’s good to make it known as it is the principle of the platform.

@nutomic
admin
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91Y

Because of this

Also, the username is the name of a weapon used by Nazi Germany, which is quite suspicious on its on.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
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4
edit-2
1Y

Was the issue with the comment that they were anti-communism or something? Because that comment very explicitly doesn’t endorse Nazis.

@Penr0se
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61Y

Both Nazism as Communism brought misery to this world. It would be better if they never existed at all.

I don’t think you can convincingly call him a Nazi.

username is the name of a weapon used by Nazi Germany

Weapons are used by different people throughout history. I’m sure the Nazis used knives as well, you shouldn’t go calling everyone a Nazi who gives themselves weapon names.

ps pls don’t ban me

Ephera
link
131Y

Well, no one called him a Nazi. The problem is that it’s a damn slippery slope, and an extremely unnecessary one at that, to compare Nazis to any group. Panzerfaust by himself wasn’t the problem, the problem is that more extreme people will feel welcome, if that’s the general tone of the discussion.

As for the name, again, by itself I wouldn’t see it as problematic either. The word “Panzerfaust” is used in German for any type of shoulder-fired rocket launcher, but I also would expect more extreme people to understand it as a reference to Nazism and feel more welcome than they should.

@abbenm
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9
edit-2
1Y

This is what I think apologists just can’t figure out.

So much of the transmission of nazism isn’t outright. It’s purposely put behind plausible deniability, it’s done through signalling, it’s done through co-opting, it’s done through bad faith arguments about mod policy and free speech, it’s done through half-jokes that aren’t really jokes, it’s done by ‘just asking honest questions’ that reinforce nazi framing etc.

And that in and of itself is enough to do the damage they want to do. Those who are rushing to the defense of these trolls are, for lack of a better term, just serving as useful idiots without realizing it.

@ksynwa
link
41Y

Hmm Trump has used the ok sign 41 times in public. If he does it 59 times more we will know for sure that he is a Nazi.

@PamalaRobida
banned
link
21Y

no it must be 61 times

@PamalaRobida
banned
link
11Y

o shit we forgot the /s not that it helps

@wraptile
banned
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11Y

the problem is that more extreme people will feel welcome, if that’s the general tone of the discussion.

The communism discussions on lemmy are already quite extreme and so was this mod’s reaction: banning someone for offending your political views — kind extreme, isn’t it?

Ephera
link
11Y

I agree on both of those points and I still think, it’s a necessary evil for multiple reasons:

  1. A ban isn’t actually that harsh of a punishment on here. Sure, Panzerfaust might be done with the platform and he did post some good content. But for him personally, he can find a different instance or a different Reddit alternative. Or if he really wants to stay, he can absolutely just create another account.

  2. No one needs to hold the political opinion that Nazis weren’t that horrible. There’s aspects where free speech is harshly necessary, e.g. if you’re not allowed to criticize your government. But if you’re not allowed to praise the Nazis, that has no impact on anything.

  3. Pretty much all prior Reddit alternatives have been overrun by right-wing extremists. If this Lemmy instance doesn’t want to undergo this same fate, yes, they have to piss off some people. Just tolerating all opinions under the guise of free speech, doesn’t work, if you don’t want right-wing extremists on your platform.

If you disagree and you’d rather have as little moderation as possible, at the risk of a few right-wing extremists on there, that’s also fine. You can find a different instance or Reddit alternative (as I said, there’s plenty that are overrun by right-wing extremists; who will probably also ban someone for holding left-wing ideas, but yeah, feel free to choose your own poison).

@wraptile
banned
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-2
edit-2
1Y
  1. No one needs to hold the political opinion that Nazis weren’t that horrible

Who said that? Panzerfaust said that Nazis and Commies are awful and the planet would have had been better off without them. Which we can all agree with, right? No one is praising nazis, what are you even on about.

Imagine reddit admins banning someone for a comment like this — the fucking site would implode.

@PamalaRobida
banned
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01Y

The nazis and communists were both socailists. Maybe just maybe that is the real problem, the mass of “society” stepping on individuals for some grand believed “betterness”.

Ephera
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11Y

Or maybe just maybe that is some really fucking dumbass backwards reasoning.

Most of the socialist structures that existed during Nazi Germany were enacted by Otto von Bismarck in the 1870s and still exist today. The Nazis just called themselves “socialist”, because they didn’t want to call themselves “the bad guys”.

And the strategies of the Nazis would still work perfectly fine in “raw” capitalism. You just need the general population to be poor and then repeatedly tell them that this is the fault of the Jews/Mexicans/Syrians etc…

In fact, I would say that a socialist system helps to prevent this type of propaganda acceptance, a.k.a. poorness. In Nazi Germany, it worked anyways, because the general population was just really fucking poor after WWI and the stock market crash in 1929.

Dessalines
mod
admin
link
81Y

Nah, they’re definitely a nazi. The soviets paid the cost for a nazi-free world with unimaginable suffering, 26M people killed, nearly half of all soviet housing destroyed via a nazi scorched earth policy. They took on ~ 70% of nazi divisions, and killed / defeated that same amount. The tides were turned at Stalingrad, a full 2 years before the allies joined at normandy, and it was a slow, painful, and bloody march to Berlin. Any “both-sidesing” here is truly disgusting.

The eastern front in WW2 was the bloodiest, most brutal engagement in the history of warfare (if there are any WW2 buffs out there, this is a good docu series: Soviet Storm.

@wraptile
banned
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-11Y

How is that relevant to the current discussion lol

If you criticize absolute monstrous failure that was soviet union that means you’re a nazi? What moon logic is that?

@PamalaRobida
banned
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11Y

LoL you have to beg to not be banned for expressing that^^ wtf is this place mao’s forum?

@pyjammas
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01Y

those arguments are crap, and I’m pretty sure you know it.

From what I’ve seen around here so far, you’re safe from getting banned unless you show the same patterns of behavior that PF did. I’d seriously be surprised and a bit disappointed if this comment would get you banned.

the “ps pls don’t ban me” makes me think you might not be acting in good faith though. Hope to be proven wrong.

@wraptile
banned
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11Y

What are the patterns?

@developred
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12
edit-2
8M

deleted by creator

@abbenm
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8
edit-2
1Y

It’s association with Fascism is overt and self-evident, whereas knives have been internationally used and been around for millennia. They are not the same.

It’s so strange to me that these entry-level JV debate team arguments people use to defend nazis. These arguments are ridiculous and bad, and not in complicated ways. Like I might debate someone on gun control, and that could at least become a complicated conversation about data, legal arguments, and laws of different countries. I might disagree with all those arguments but they would be based on something.

But when people defend Nazis, they’re always these amazingly lazy false equivalences and misunderstandings of the basic structure of arguments, from people who seem to have just discovered the wikipedia page for logical fallacies.

@developred
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6
edit-2
8M

deleted by creator

@inwardpath
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41Y

Glad to see it wasn’t only because of the name- because that can be complicated. There was a racist record label with that name, but there’s also a non-racist Canadian metal band with that name… etc, etc.

@PamalaRobida
banned
link
01Y

So this place is about identity politics. I suppose because you are a bunch of leftists you ain’t worth talking to because you’ll just delete anything you don’t like which is a lot!

@couldbeanybody
creator
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41Y

thanks for the info

@PamalaRobida
banned
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01Y

Oh my god he used a suspicious word as his name, the grand fucking crime! /s/s/s/s/s/s/s/removed

@wraptile
banned
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21Y

At risk of getting banned I really don’t like Lemmy’s pushing of communism from the comfort of their 1st world capitalistic countries. I feel that it’s good to discuss it and have the idea around but as a Lithuanian who had a lot of my ancestors straight up tortured, murdered and sent to Siberia by monsters that were Soviets, a communist is much worse than any nazi ever was relative to my experience. So in a way I completely agree with Panzerfaust’s message here.

I really don’t understand why every reddit clone has to be spear headed by blind extremists, I feel that the mods got a bit power-trippy with the recent success of Lemmy and I’m afraid this will be the end of Lemmy as it was with thousand other reddit clones.
Reading this thread alone paints a pretty bleak picture.

@racoon
link
-11Y

a communist is much worse than any nazi ever

Yeah that’s what everybody was telling when I lived in Latvia. Both dictatorship systems are horrible. That doesn’t make of liberal capitalism à la Friedman any less despicable either

@wraptile
banned
link
21Y

Yup the Baltics in particular suffered a lot under soviets. I’m from a town in Lithuania that was basically ethnically cleansed by sending pretty much anyone with education (e.g. my great grandparents) to Siberia with a fucking bag of onions at best and stealing all of our resources; then importing a bunch of russian citizens to take over the area by sheer majority. Ruskies wanted ethnic majority for stable and loyal port cities. Same thing happened with Riga and to a slightly lesser extent with Tallinn.

@couldbeanybody
creator
link
21Y

I am sorry but how the fuck could you ever believe that communists are worse than nazis.

@wraptile
banned
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-11Y

By actually living under communist oppression?

@couldbeanybody
creator
link
31Y

yeah I get that it’s a thing, but I don’t see how that would be worse than the nazis.

@wraptile
banned
link
01Y

Real world is not an anime Goku; How can you measure crimes against humanity and compare which one is worse? By sheer numbers? Commies win by a huge margin. Brutality? How do you even measure that?

Everything is relative and we can agree that both soviets and german nazi’s were awful just differently exposed around the world. In asia people had never even heard of Nazis yet everyone knows of the horrors of Pol Pot or even Japan’s imperialist states. So are nazis worse here too?

@couldbeanybody
creator
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11Y

I am sorry we got into this argument I don’t think I want to continue.

@couldbeanybody
creator
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11Y

See this as a win if you want, I think we are talking past each other.

@wraptile
banned
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-21Y

sure, seems like you’re clearly not ready to discuss this as it offends your preferred camp of political ideology 🤷 Take care.

@couldbeanybody
creator
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21Y

No I am not offended but atm unable to say what I am trying to say.

@PamalaRobida
banned
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1
edit-2
1Y

removed by mod

@couldbeanybody
creator
link
01Y

I have never experienced oppression by so called communist states but I have talked to many people who have lived under so called communist governments and they had mixed feelings. They were pretty terrible, but not the same as full fascist states. Just my experience.

@work_at_google
link
1
edit-2
1Y

they had mixed feelings. They were pretty terrible, but not the same as full fascist states. Just my experience.

I think this can be attributed to survivor’s bias. There are very few soviet critics because they were killed or immigrated and honestly the ex-soviet states had a rough time recovering.

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