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Permananently Deleted

@anoa
1510M

Please read Mozilla’s previous response to their usage of Google Analytics.

It notably mentions a link to a previous discussion which reads:

Mozilla went through a year long legal discussion with GA before we would ever implement it on our websites. GA had to provide how and what they stored and we would only sign a contract with them if they allowed Mozilla to opt-out of Google using the data for mining and 3rd parties.

We now have two check boxes in our GA premium account that allows us to opt-out of additional usage of our data. Because Mozilla pushed Google so hard, those two check boxes are available to every other GA user in the world regardless if they have a premium account like we do. GA also doesn’t track IPs or store PII within the tool.

Yes, it would be nice if they switched to something like Simple Analytics which has cropped up recently, but not everything is so black and white.

Ephera
1010M

I’m hard-line anti-Google, but I don’t think, it’s useful to measure Mozilla by our standards. We can’t get a privacy-friendly option out of Google, or can’t trust them if they say something is privacy-friendly, so we have to completely avoid their products and can do so at our own cost.

But Mozilla is an organisation, they can arrange contracts with Google. And violating a contract is something that not even $EVILMEGACORP does lightly. The punishment for that is brutal.
As has already been pointed out, they have such a contract for Google Analytics.

Firefox Send is the next point. Yes, if you’re a purist, you’ll avoid using Google Cloud Platform, at your own cost. But if you’re an organisation, needing to manage finances (so that you don’t have to take even more money from Google), you’ll make a contract with Google to not use that data for nefarious things. And believe me that GCP would not be profitable, if they didn’t offer such contracts. Most companies want that.
Besides, the files get end-to-end-encrypted when using Firefox Send, so it’s really negligible what Google would get, if they went all-in on violating that contract.

And with the usual argument of them promoting Google Search in exchange for a lot of money, yes, I would also prefer, if they could do it from just user donations. But the reality is that they would have to reduce their offerings, possibly even lose competitiveness in Firefox, if they only took money from Bing, Yahoo! and DuckDuckGo (and if you want them to not even take money from Bing or Yahoo!, well, they won’t get any money here).

They have been trying to branch out and make money elsewhere, but every time they do, the pitchforks get also risen. For example, they recommend articles on the newtab-page. The recommendations are generated from your local browsing history, so privacy-wise it’s perfectly good. But uninformed users don’t understand that, so raise the pitchforks.

Another example is Pocket. Yes, when they bought it, it was still proprietary. They replaced the stuff that they couldn’t open-source and then open-sourced the rest. But many users never got to know about that or just hate Pocket in general, so raise the pitchforks.

What I’m saying is, give them the benefit of the doubt. They are a non-profit with privacy as part of their legally-binding mission statement (and their for-profit daughter is a 100% subsidiary, so can’t pay that profit out to anyone and has to follow the same mission statement).
That doesn’t mean you have to blindly trust them, I’m saying, you should search for explanations when you think they’re violating privacy.
I’ve never been disappointed when I did that, because they either have mechanism in place that do protect privacy (for example https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/how-safe-browsing-works-in-firefox/ is really interesting) or there’s a political reason why they can’t, for example, block all tracking scripts by default (though I think, they actually do that nowadays).

Yeah some people don’t understand that firefox isn’t a money printing machine.

@Kamui
29M

Thank you, this puts me somewhat at ease. (Err at least more so than I was before).

Makkusu
1
edit-2
6M

deleted by creator

Ephera
19M

Yeah, seems you’re right about that. Here’s a fairly recent statement from the Pocket manager on it: https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/pocket-source-code/43686/12

I guess, I thought of it as fully open-sourced, since I mainly care about the client. Open-sourced server software is only really useful, if you’re going to self-host.

@Niquarl
710M

It’s pretty easy to change the search engine. Firefox actually gives a few secondary defaults: bing, amazon, duckduckgo, qwant and wikipedia. The deal they have with Google allows them to get a lot of money, if they ended it how would they pay their bills ?

Google Analytics is however a big problem regarding basic internet privacy and shouldn’t be used by Mozzilla at all, pretty dissapointing. Thanks for the information on Firefox Send, I guess I won’t be using that…

Where did you get the 5% market share ? I always thought it was closer to a third of market share (or is the 5% worlwide and some coutries don’t use Firefox as much as others ?) That’s really not a lot, pretty incredible they can charge Google so much in that case.

@TheMainOne
creator
2
edit-2
3M

deleted by creator

@gravity
2
edit-2
9M

They also collect massive amounts of telemetry, if you dig into the about:config, there’s an overwhelming amount of pinging and telemetry related preferences that are all enabled by default.

As a sidenote though, if you setup a custom user.js and lock down Firefox, I think Firefox is great. But stock? Hell no. And this is an issue because it is extremely misleading to misinformed people who think stock Firefox is super secure. I would take Firefox stock any-day over Google Chrome, although I would probably put Ungoogled Chromium above Firefox, but I would rank Mitigated Firefox at the top for now. I daily Firefox, and I can never go back to Chromium. There’s too much I’d miss out on, especially extensions. My Firefox config is pretty /comfy/ for me at this point.

It’s quite ironic of Mozilla, relying a lot of its current revenue on G itself. I particularly now understand the experimental ways they are developing to cut themselves from that dependency with the Firefox Private Network and Better Web.

Hadn’t heard of Firefox Send till now, would be a great service if they’d cut Googles involvement. Also I cannot say I would blame them for being paid that much money in exchange for being the preset option of multiple web browsing options and its easily swappable to DDG or other services by default.

Ephera
410M

I don’t see that as a problem, since the files get end-to-end-encrypted. At best, Google could note that one IP address sent a file and another IP address downloaded the file, but without knowing what’s in the file, that would rarely be useful information.

@Junker
banned
-1
edit-2
3M

removed by mod

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

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  • If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
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