The US government's Helsinki Commission held a Congressional briefing plotting ways to break up Russia as a country, in the name of supposed
@gun
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I never trusted the land back anti-colonialism movements that originated in the west. They will scree about land back for Tibet and ETIM long before they do anything for indigenous people in the US. I swear if this type of language existed during the height of the British empire, aristocrats would be talking about the need to decolonize Maratha. Land back for the Indian nations! It’s all just divide and conquer baby. Only a strong power can resist real imperialism, one that moralizing children will call authoritarian and imperialist.

I agree that liberals always twist land back, but I really do feel that the indigenous in Amerikkka and Klanada should get it back.

@AgreeableLandscape
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The rule of thumb is, if the actual original citizens of the land want it back, it’s a valid land back movement. If only an external government (especially the West) think the land should be back, it’s almost always bullshit.

@gun
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Yes especially because the land that they do have is violated all the time for pipelines etc. The problem is that the meaning of this term is not definite or based in theory. For some, it could mean the expulsion of all non-indigenous populations which will never happen and would do a lot of harm if it did. For the NDN collective, it means the privatization of all public lands.

I won’t claim to know the best policy or slogan, but I think it’s important, when indigenous people in my country are only 0.7% of the population, to teach the masses that we share a common struggle. I think increasingly people can relate to the idea of having something that belongs to you taken away. My great grandfather was a farmer who ultimately had to lose his farm because government regulations made it impossible to compete with the big guys. So a slogan like “Land for all” goes a long way comparatively. This is only a part of the equation because there is still the issue of autonomy.

For some, it could mean the expulsion of all non-indigenous populations which will never happen and would do a lot of harm if it did.

Ive never heard anyone sincerely give this take.

My great grandfather was a farmer who ultimately had to lose his farm because government regulations made it impossible to compete with the big guys.

This is a good example of why Land Back, and really any slogan or platitude is limited. Comparing genocide to losing a farm is exactly the result because systems of meaning making translate these slogans into something they were not created for.

Breaking up USA seems like a good idea… never mind it is already on its way to becoming DSA. Let them daydream all kinds of nonsense.

krolden
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Serious and controversial discussions are now underway about reckoning with Russia’s fundamental imperialism and the need to “decolonize” Russia for it to become a viable stakeholder in European security and stability. As the successor to the Soviet Union, which cloaked its colonial agenda in anti-imperial and anti-capitalist nomenclature, Russia has yet to attract appropriate scrutiny for its consistent and oftentimes brutal imperial tendencies.

Lol talk about projection

@soloninja
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Why is this literally not surprising at all

Good. Let them fight and break each other apart so that we can rebuild better socities in their wake. All imperialist states, or heck, all states need to go away for people to have true freedom.

@marmulak
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I hope so

Go back to reddit

@marmulak
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Go to Russia

@vitaminka
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for some reason this post really stuck with me

probably because of the way that it highlighted the fact that the leftists foundations (leftists as in basic human rights, which have shifted to mean full unadulterated communism in the current political overton window) are still there, among the monuments of neoliberalism, neglect and corruption, just gotta brush the dust off, gives me hope :)

Yeah, it’s kind of amazing to see that capitalists failed to tear down a lot of these foundations even three decades after the destruction of USSR. One day these ghouls will be overthrown again.

@vekku@sopuli.xyz
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It should be said that most of the western liberal world is like what that comment in Reddit described. But it’s good to know that Russia is in many ways there too, that gives me hope for the future.

A lot of the socialist policies in Europe are also an indirect result of USSR having existed. An example of an alternative system run by the workers meant that concessions had to be made in order to prevent local uprisings. This was a great read on the subject.

@marmulak
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Are you there yet?

I don’t live in US and would never move to that shithole

@marmulak
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Here in the former USSR, a lot of people say that. They would never live somewhere at terrible as the USA. But the funny part is when you ask them the reason. They say it must be terrible because there’s so many black people, who they often refer to as n******s. Thanks Russia.

Ah yeah, evil Russia made people in former USSR racist.

@marmulak
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Pretty much. The hatred of blacks is pretty extreme and socially transmitted in Russian society. The random comments I hear about them never ends, and also “the Jews” is another favorite topic, along with gays as I mentioned earlier. Russia is not only socially backwards but the Russian state is one of the most corrupt on Earth. People are not happy to live under it, unless they’re totally brainwashed.

@guojing
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Western countries are extremely corrupt, the only difference is thay they manage to hide it relatively well.

@AgreeableLandscape
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They don’t hide it well at all, we’ve just been conditioned to see it as normal.

@AgreeableLandscape
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You know a lot of black people defected from the US to the USSR to escape racism and segregation right?

Love how you inadvertently expose your own racism here.

Gladly

I mean how stupid are you?

@marmulak
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Try getting colonized by Russia and see how you like it

@AgreeableLandscape
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Not nearly as bad as getting colonized by Western Europe/the US? Just ask any Indigenous people in North and South America, Australia, New Zealand, Hawai’i, we’d be here all day if I listed it all. Don’t pretend that the government of the US/Canada/other “former” European colonies gives a shit about decolonisation when they refuse to give their own Indigenous people rights.

Being colonized by the US is fucked but it’s also fucked to be colonized by other states. Russia or China are no better. All empires need to die and the sooner the better so that we can fix global warming before it destroys us all.

@AgreeableLandscape
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Do enlighten me on what places Russia and China have colonized.

Russia is actively warring in Ukraine as we speak and has taken over Crimea to “liberate them”.

China is refusing to recognize the independence of Taiwan or Hong Kong and actively trying to undermine the authority of the governments elected there.

Now that’s not to say that Ukraine, Crimea, Taiwan or Hong Kong haven’t felt the influence of the West, far from it. It’s just that the West is not the only ones fucking with them.

All of these nations are meddling in the internal affairs of other people and they’re doing so for power and profits, not for supporting democracy or to denazify them or for whatever excuses they use.

@AgreeableLandscape
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Crimea

Might want to read up on the history of that region. It was ancestrally Russian, and not in some “they were taken over in a war five thousand years ago” way, in a “it was Russian right up until around a hundred years ago” way, the vast majority of the people there are ethnically Russian, and more importantly, they self identify as Russians. They even had a referendum, held by the local government, on whether they’d rather be apart of Russia or Ukraine, a vast majority chose Russia.

Hong Kong

That’s a new one. China is colonizing Hong Kong is it? Presumably from their rightful fatherland, the British?

Taiwan (namely, “not recognising their sovereignty”)

How is that colonialism? Ireland doesn’t officially recognize Northern Ireland as not their own territory either, is Ireland suddenly colonizing Northern Ireland now? Or, is North and South Korea colonizing each other since they each think the entire Korean peninsula is theirs? Not recognizing the soverignty of some country isn’t colonizing them lol, those are independent political concepts. It’s also funny how you’re okay with Ukraine owning a piece of ancestral Russian land, Crimea, but simply not recognising an independent Taiwanese government is colonialism. Also, the KMT aren’t native there either, they fled there after the communist revolution in China. Indigenous Taiwanese are a thing and was the majority before the KMT came and. Now they’re only around 2% of the island’s population, which, IDK, might lead the rational to conclude that maybe the KMT were the ones that colonized Taiwan, not the CPC?

I was totally expecting you to mention Tibet or Xinjiang or something lol, and was prepared to to argue against those, but congrats, you’ve blindsighted me with examples I thought no rational person would use as their first picks.

@personwithakeyboard
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No, my point with all of those is that they all want independence but neither the West or Russia and China will let them be. Why do they have to be under an empire at all?

And even if Crimea is historically Russian, it’s definitely not purely Russian now, it’s still insanely shitty towards the handful of Ukraineans living there to be cutoff from other people in Ukraine.

Also, if Crimea (and Donbass) is supposedly fucked over by Ukraine, how is it helping them to bomb the shit out of them instead of Kiev? If you wanna liberate people from a bad government, attack that government, not the region you’re trying to “save”.

All these wars only create horrible conditions for the people living there and they end up hating everyone, the ones ruling them and the ones trying to save them. The next generations will not be very warm towards Russians or Westerners and the cycle of violence will continue.

What I would want is for all these empires to stop pushing one culture or another on people that are far away from the capital and central government.

@AgreeableLandscape
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No, my point with all of those is that they all want independence but neither the West or Russia and China will let them be.

Again, that’s a completely different concept to colonialism. Your argument is that China and Russia are colonisers, which have specific definitions and criteria to be called that, yet your examples are of completely irrelevant actions.

And even if Crimea is historically Russian, it’s definitely not purely Russian now, it’s still insanely shitty towards the handful of Ukraineans living there to be cutoff from other people in Ukraine.

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Handful of Ukrainians, who still have the ability of going back to mainland Ukraine, vs the vastly more Russians who want to be apart of Russia.

It’s the same BS argument that people use against decolonizing places like Hawaii, or North America in general. “What about the white people who live there if you want to give it back to the natives?” Simple! Get the fuck out if they want you the fuck out!

Also, if Crimea (and Donbass) is supposedly fucked over by Ukraine, how is it helping them to bomb the shit out of them instead of Kiev?

Bombing Nazi strongholds that are controlling the rest of the region? Hmm, I wonder how that could possibly help liberate them. Also, again, you might want to check up on the scandals of Ukraine/NATO bombing those places and then blaming Russia. Like this.. There are m,any documented cases that, surprise surprise, the West is keeping real quiet about.

The next generations will not be very warm towards Russians or Westerners and the cycle of violence will continue.

https://lemmygrad.ml/c/donbass – A lot of direct accounts of people there. They absolutely hate Westerners because why would they not, Russia, not so much.

What I would want is for all these empires to stop pushing one culture or another on people that are far away from the capital and central government.

Just because a country has a central government doesn’t mean it’s an empire. Again, empire has an actual political definition and criteria, and like colonialism, isn’t some buzzword you can slap on any country you don’t like.

@marmulak
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I don’t give a shit about them or your whataboutism. I just want Russia to fuck off. All these idiots on here defending it are just showing that they really don’t know what Russia is like.

@AgreeableLandscape
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I don’t give a shit about them

Assuming you meant the Indigenous people I talked about, nice. Really showed your true colours here.

Liberal chuds always inadvertently out themselves like this. They don’t give a shit about anyone in practice, and they just do moral grandstanding. The worst kind of human garbage.

Just wait for the buzzword!! Let me scroll through my Twitter feed for that meme!!! It will own you!!!

@marmulak
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You are garbage. I live in Central Asia where it’s all fucked up by Russia here and I just want Russia to fuck off, that’s all.

You have shown yourself to be an utter imbecile in these threads, and your opinion means nothing to me.

@marmulak
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Today I spoke to a long time colleague in Russia. He watches Russian TV all the time so he is really in tune with Russian state propaganda. Today he just talked for hours about how there are so many homosexuals in the Obama administration. He told everyone he met.

This is the Russia you’re defending, which officially promotes homophobia among uneducated populations it rules over. No fucking thanks.

Where am I defending any of that Dr. Straw Man?

@marmulak
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You’re defending a state that officially spreads such views. And yes, it really does. That isn’t even the half of it

Nah, you’re just putting words in my mouth because you don’t have a coherent argument to make.

You are a disgusting Western chauvinist. And your profile picture of a lizard justifies your mindset.

@marmulak
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I live in Central Asia, and would prefer Russia to fuck off. If you live further East than me, or somewhere Russia has colonized, feel free to say so. So far everyone on this thread defending the good for nothing, shitty excuse for a state in Russia has proved that they do not live under it.

So I say to you as well: Go live there.

Central Asia? No, I have not seen Russian colonisation. You are mad because you are making up thin air arguments, and are getting the flak for it. Go back to reddit, as MrOzwaldMan said above.

@marmulak
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See it first and then talk

@nomemory
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@AgreeableLandscape
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Misinformation… Like saying that Western Europe colonized the entire world, which they themselves proudly flaunt like it’s their greatest achievement.

Sure.

@nomemory
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Lemmy_Admin
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@ezmack
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