@Yujiri
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The two use cases suggested:

Alice holds a digital wallet that securely manages her identity, data, and authorizations for external apps and connections. Alice uses her wallet to sign in to a new decentralized social media app. Because Alice has connected to the app with her decentralized identity, she does not need to create a profile, and all the connections, relationships, and posts she creates through the app are stored with her, in her decentralized web node. Now Alice can switch apps whenever she wants, taking her social persona with her.

  • Creating a profile takes what, 2 minutes? And you do it only once per app.
  • Connections and relationships: Okay so you want to copy your list of followers? That’s nothing remotely new. Pleroma literally has that (also for blocks and mutes).
  • If you want automatic discovery of existing followers, fine, but note that already exists on some platforms via email addresses or phone numbers. All you’d need to extend it to secure, decentralized identifiers is for those platforms to have a metadata field for users to put such an identifier. Hardly revolutionary.

Bob is a music lover and hates having his personal data locked to a single vendor. It forces him to regurgitate his playlists and songs over and over again across different music apps. Thankfully there’s a way out of this maze of vendor-locked silos: Bob can keep this data in his decentralized web node. This way Bob is able to grant any music app access to his settings and preferences, enabling him to take his personalized music experience wherever he chooses.

So you want to import playlists between music apps? That could only work if each song has a globally unique identifier for the playlists which is known to all the platforms. That isn’t the case, and changing that would require every musician to change their workflow.

@vitaminka
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damn, y’all have zero chill 😬

not even half an hour after this was posted ppl will be like nah, without having as much as read the proposal in general terms

i understand your hesitancy, but this approach is super harmful and unproductive…

comfy
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I really don’t want to see this place become ‘reddit again’ with unproductive people shouting opinions when they didn’t even read the content.

What part is harmful and unproductive? I read the proposal and decentralized identities don’t sound like something harmful. In the current fediverse model, your identity is tied to a specific server and you can’t move it around; but in TBD, you can.

@vitaminka
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nah, i meant just instantly saying “no thanks” without even reading anything is not a good approach

i’m all for decentralised identities, it’s a super hard problem, and i’m very curious about any potential solution to it, regardless of where it comes from

@humanetech
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Like many others these kinds of initiatives trigger an urge with me to be dismissive, write a witty toot, send a meme, etc. And I’m guilty of doing so at various occasions.

But being a passionate advocate for the Fediverse to come to its full potential and thrive, I should avoid doing so. It contributes to a widespread complacency that fedi has established itself, is in a strong position, and will only continue to grow and prosper some more. This is far from where we are. The deeper I dive into all-things-fedi, the more my concerns for its future grows. There are serious threats and major challenges to overcome (I am going to add “complacency” as another challenge).

Though there are various threats for disruption, the currently popular apps - Mastodon in the lead - have least to fear. The ‘microblogging-verse’ is best established and can continue to grow significantly in numbers of fedizens participating. Entrance of new apps, application types, having new kinds of features, is where the biggest pain points are. Here fedi is evolving in a haphazard way that will destroy interoperability in the long run.

And then there are major features that are lacking (or at least not broadly adopted), like distributed / nomadic identity (Zap project have this). I see competing initiatives putting those first on the list, which is smart.

Whatever we think of narcisist billionaires, surveillance capitalist walled gardens, crypto bro-ism, vulture capital-driven startups, etcetera… They may disrupt us, so we better monitor their tech.

A person like Jack Dorsey has a humongous network, could likely easily raise millions of bucks, and formate a group of expert developers that work fulltime on creating something not all too bad, and then create a big media hype to let it gain adoption.

We are millions of fedizens. It may be critical mass to get more good apps in the air and gaining popularity. But in numbers it is nothing, what a well-marketed competitor app + ecosystem might reach in a relatively short time.

This Web5 thing here, is in large part based on open standards that have been in development for a long time. Of course with Jack in the loop there’s blockchain involved (the Ion project). But AFAICS all the DID and Verifiable Credentials stuff could also work without blockchain. I don’t have a good overview of all the identity drafts and projects out there, but these standards may not be the worst to bet on for the future.

@humanetech
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@dessalines@lemmy.ml I wonder why my comment is not visible when I search on the post URL in Mastodon, while all the other comments are visible? Are those masto-side bugs? First time I did a search the comment above was already made, so shouldn’t be some stale cache or something.

@tristan ah, the founder of the friendliest and most constructive social media site is taking on a complex and multifaceted problem that even the best engineers are having trouble solving! this is totally going to go over well

I can’t stand that Dorsey founded and was a key part of Twitter in the stages where it contributed towards the spread of bigotry online, and then now is trying to distance himself from the monster he created. These guys like Dorsey, Zuckerberg, etc. always have these neoliberal delusions that rely on reverse engineering answers to justify them getting more money and power. They go through their little “good guy” phases like what Dorsey is doing and what Bill Gates has been doing for years-- where they pretend to undo the outrageous amount of damage they’ve caused while largely profiting in the same ways they always have-- scumbag investment strategies.

@tristan
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These guys like Dorsey, Zuckerberg, etc. always have these neoliberal delusions

You might be right. I’m happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least to start with. It is possible they have learnt and changed over time. I guess we’ll see how Dorsey plays this one.

Just read over what you’re saying, please. In a conversation about multi-billionaires behind the most toxic social media platforms on the planet (Zuckerberg, Dorsey), you’re "happy to give them the benefit of the doubt" when they pitch a model like this, that is so plainly reliant on something they’re already heavily invested in?

Come on, as a leftist… I really do wish more people on the left were less inclined to give these ghouls the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn’t matter who the founder is. As far as I can see, this proposal is not evil. It’s even more decentralized than the way the Fediverse works, unless I’m missing something of the presentation.

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It absolutely does matter who the founder and sponsors are, they help determine the direction of the project and how intellectual property regarding it is treated. They’re also a bit more likely to be the major flagship service, at least in a critical early stage, which also gives them power and influence over the technology. Technology is not separated from our social world in an ideal.

Consider lemmy, pleroma and mastodon. Their founders have influenced large parts of their respective services, not all of them, but the largest parts of them. In some cases, this has even influenced the code itself (two of these had applied-by-default slur filters at a stage).

this proposal is not evil

Why would it be? ‘Evil’ is a strange concept, and many destructive and horrible ideas weren’t even motivated by things like greed or malicious intent.

No, it doesn’t matter who the founder is, as long as they make their intentions and goals clear since the beginning. When you talk about decentralization, you also talk about freedom; so steering away from freedom won’t help you.

Everything in TBD’s web5 is free software, because it’s the only way major browser developers will build your code into their products. And even if they were to close source their code, web5 ambitions can only be reached with an open standard. An open standard means community-led free software implementations can arise. In case you were wondering, web5 standard is not too complex, as far as it seems, so I don’t expect it to be an obstacle for implementations.

If you read the proposal, you’ll see there are tons of mechanisms in place to avoid centralization. There’s no point or incentive in practically owning the network, which is one of Dorsey’s main talking points and what makes web5 different from web3.

Now, web5 running atop Bitcoin is a no-no for me, so don’t take all of the above as an endorsement for web5, I’m just stating facts.

@tristan
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this is totally going to go over well

Yeah, could be a disaster! 😂

Nyoomie
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So…they’re doing ZeroNET again?

comfy
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Reminds me of Solid (wiki)

Interestingly, there have been some people interested in implementing ActivityPub in Solid servers, but I haven’t seen any demos or success stories yet.

@Lunearity
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I wonder how much power this consumes

So meta wants to dominate with htag metaverse and square htag web5 and the other web giants will launch their own approaches and hopefully fedi can take learnings about web identity and payments and keep doing its own thing. this has the potential to affect onlyfans/insta directly and will allow twitter to remove moderation headaches. Or something.moving on.

Interesting. TBD’s main focus is on decentralized and verifiable identities that you can use on every website that supports TDB. It’s all decentralized and free software, and apparently doesn’t use any blockchain or cryptocurrency, which is great.

Edit: wait, although I can’t see Bitcoin or blockchain mentioned in the slides, Jack Dorsey himself indeed pitches web5 as being powered by Bitcoin; so it’s indeed a harmful model and I retract what I said before.

@tristan
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I agree, in that whether of not it’s successful or even if it’s just another corp grabbing for money/data/whatever, it will be an iteration of the decentralised web concept taking hold in the imagination of those who can define the web into the future.

dreamLogic
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It looks like it uses blockchain?

deleted by creator

No thanks

Did you even read what it’s about?

@MerchantsOfMisery
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Yes, did you? It strikes me as just a cash grab meant to boost the image of Bitcoin so that Dorsey and other uber rich people heavily invested in BTC can continue with more hyped up nonsense.

What exactly’s wrong with web3? This guy’s out here pitching web5 when web3 isn’t even a thing yet. This is so plainly a cash grab, IMO.

The fact that he keeps pushing this “Web5 is gonna be powered by BITCOIN” narrative is just so cringe and he’s clearly trying to build hype for a nonsense product that won’t ever pan out the way he says it will.

There’s a reason why all the crypto bro communities are absolutely loving Dorsey’s new nonsense.

edit: Nvm just read your profile, I’ve zero interest in speaking to people who waste time trolling. Blocked.

edit 2: For anyone not a troll, think of it this way… This is like me saying “Forget 5G, I’m going to offer 7G cellular connectivity! And it’ll be powered by this thing that I along with my friends just happen to be heavily invested in! What about 6G, you ask? Forget about the past, 7G is the future!”

I realize it’s not a 1:1 comparison, but I think you get my point. This inexplicable leap to “web5” is just classic marketing bullshit and it worries me that people aren’t more skeptical of the legitimacy of this.

@tristan
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It strikes me as just a cash grab meant to boost the image of Bitcoin

It wouldn’t surprise me if you were proven right on that. Still, it’s a positive sign when a ‘mainstream voice’ can talks in terms of decentralised platforms. It’s a part of the overall evolution of the web. I guess we’ll wait and see if anything good comes of it.

It’s a good sign, but I think he has to talk about it to stay relevant. Because of enthusiasts pushing an idea that’s not immediately about money ^^

I think you’re being deceived.

Nvm just read your profile, I’ve zero interest in speaking to people who waste time trolling. Blocked.

Nice catch! I’ll block and report him too

The real “trolling” is in my bio description, it’s indended to repel tankies. If you read my comments you would see, but you were effectively trolled and proceeded to report me.

@Lunearity
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deleted by creator

A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.

Fediverse is a portmanteau of “federation” and “universe”. It is a common, informal name for a federation of social network servers whose main purpose is microblogging, the sharing of short, public messages.

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