trash
Arthur Besse
link
fedilink
64M

Basically Matrix is just XMPP but reinvented by people with an angle bracket allergy (so they use JSON instead of XML)

@yourliftingfriend
This web.archive.org/web/2020121901… feeds my doubts about matrix again… huhmmmm… 😒😒

@ster
link
fedilink
34M

Jabber is another protocol, so yes it is different to both. Like Matrix, Jabber (which is the same as XMPP) is an open decentralised protocol so people can talk to each other even if they are using different providers (like email). However, Matrix supports bridging so in theory with some effort you can talk between Matrix and XMPP.

XMPP is not as sophisticated as Matrix because afaik it is not actively being developed by any organisations.

@Ferk
link
fedilink
7
edit-2
4M

XMPP is actively developed, but the development happens in extensions to the standard, which might not be implemented/supported everywhere, since they are optional. The design is more modular than Matrix, with development being more distributed.

Matrix development is more centralized so it’s easier for it to propagate new features. You just upgrade to the newest version. There are also only a few options when it comes to client / server software so it’s more focused on a specific implementation.

Sam
link
fedilink
64M

This is one of the big trade offs: Matrix has a big VC funded client/server implementation that gets new features right away. On the other hand, because of this it only has a few alternative clients and servers. XMPP on the other hand has a large and vibrant client/server ecosystem, but no single client/server pair that are funded and get new features right away. Generally speaking I think this is a good thing and it’s one of the reasons I decided to start doing XMPP development over Matrix development back when I was comparing them initially, but YMMV.

Arthur Besse
link
fedilink
44M

Matrix development is more centralized so it’s easier for it to propagate new features. You just upgrade to the newest version. There are also only a few options when it comes to client / server software so it’s more focused on a specific implementation.

Really? My impression is that there are also tons of Matrix clients supporting different subsets of the protocol’s features.

Sam
link
fedilink
84M

I think they meant that the reference client/server get the new features. You’re correct that the other third party clients have the same issue as XMPP where they all implement their distinct subsets of features or take a long time to update. Having the specs in one giant document or in multiple little documents doesn’t make much difference there.

Joe Bidet
link
fedilink
24M

there is middleware like these go (mautrix) and rust libs that implement feature-perfect matrix protocol, and evolve swiftly (and with style) and let developpers focus on distinguishing their clients and features. for instance gomuks is based on mautrix…

that way we could see some “hardened” matrix client happen, that would only use encrypted-by-default-and-verified messsages, not allowmultiple keys by default, not send-or-display presence information etc.?

yes but xmpp server runs well on a raspberry pi 1…

Dendrite would probably run well on a Raspberry Pi, and Conduit definitely would, so the same is true for Matrix.

Oh, has it been done?

poVoq
mod
link
fedilink
2
edit-2
4M

Sort of… Conduit is definitely more lightweight in regard to RAM/CPU use… only about 10 times as bad as the typical XMPP server, not 100x or more like Synapse. But the excessive database storage requirements of Matrix are not really possible to solve.

Sam
link
fedilink
64M

XMPP has supported bridges for a long time too (since the early 2000’s, at least), for example, jmp.chat runs bridges between it and the telephone network, SMTP, IRC, and probably others that I’m forgetting. Disroot also runs an IRC bridge, as do a lot of XMPP servers.

Sam
link
fedilink
74M

The “not actively developed” is wrong too; XMPP is very active and has been for a lot longer than matrix, meaning it generally has a lot of problems solved that Matrix is still working on re-inventing the wheel on.

@yourliftingfriend
creator
link
fedilink
3
edit-2
1M

deleted by creator

@singpolyma
link
fedilink
24M

Matrix and XMPP are radically different protocols with different strengths. At the moment, the most popular apps for both protocols implement very similar user experience (for “chatting”) and so usually you will see people comparing the UX of these apps and their use case rather than comparing the protocols at all.

The basics of the two protocols are as follows:

Matrix is based on the idea of a decentralized, eventually consistent database.

XMPP is based on the idea of near-real-time federated passing of extensible messages.

@ilia@mander.xyz
link
fedilink
2
edit-2
3M

deleted by creator

XMPP/Jabber
!xmpp

    Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) is a communication protocol for message-oriented middleware based on XML. Learn more about it here.

    Dedicated Lemmy instance

    XMPP.net Provider List

    Also see JoinJabber.org FAQ

    • 0 users online
    • 1 user / day
    • 1 user / week
    • 1 user / month
    • 39 users / 6 months
    • 386 subscribers
    • 147 Posts
    • 216 Comments
    • Modlog