ID: 4 panels:

  1. A self righteous person holds their hand up and says “Violence is never the solution.”

  2. Stephie replies with a smile “Oh! So you agree that we shouldn’t give weapons to the police?”

  3. She adds “And that we should dismantle the army?”

  4. Stephie is now right up behind the other person, looking angry, saying “Or did you mean that violence is only a solution when it helps maintain the status quo?”. The other person looks deeply uncomfortable.

Credit: Sophie Labelle

  • wpb@lemmy.world
    7·
    9 days ago

    In 1831, a group of slaves led by fellow slave Nat Turner rebelled against the white slave owners. The command issued was simple: “kill all whites”. And they did. They killed about 55 white men, women, and children. Ten victims were 5 years or younger. The retaliation of the white slave owners was extensive. For example, in the immediate aftermath, 120 slaves were killed. The material conditions of the enslaved worsened significantly. Despite this violence, and the even more violent retribution, the abolitionists never condemned Nat Turner. John Browne goes so far as calling him an inspiration. Today, we honor Nat Turner as a hero. There’s a park in New Jersey named after him, among other things.

    History is rife with examples of violent struggle against violent oppression, and it’s never pretty. The ANC (anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, party of Mandela) bombed civilians, the Hatian revolution involved the mass killing of French colonizers. Invariably, they kill civilians, and invariably, we look back on them as heroes playing a fundamental role in liberation.

    Israel is an apartheid state, just like South Africa was. Gaza has been described as a concentration camp. It’s one of the most densely populated regions in the world, borders completely controlled by Israel, you cannot get out. Half the inmates are children. The regular bombings since 2008 of this concentration camp (referred to as mowing the lawn) have killed thousands. The massacres at Sabra and Shatila, directed by the IDF, claiming in three days the lives of up to 3500 palestinians, were genocide. The occupation at the end of the six day war of the Golan heights, the Sinai peninsula, the Gaza strip and the West Bank resulted in the displacement of 400,000 arabs. This is ethnic displacement.

    During the march of return, a peaceful protest in 2019 in Gaza, Israel had snipers deliberately target medics, the elderly, children, and the disabled. They were aiming for the knees, maiming some for life, killing others. Thousands were injured, hundreds killed, hospitals overrun. Despite this gruesome response, the protest went largely ignored around the globe, and nothing changed for Gazans.

    When peaceful resistance against a violent apartheid ethnostate does nothing, what is to be done? If there is any justice in the world, we will look back on October 7th as we do on Nat Turner’s slave revolt, or the Warsaw uprising. I hope that one day I can walk in Yahya Al-Sinwar park.

  • Limonene@lemmy.world
    125·
    10 days ago

    Violence is the solution to violence.

    The threat of defensive violence can act as a useful deterrent to prevent violence.

    Nuclear weapons are massively violent. Although they have caused harm in a number of ways (offensive use in WW2, experimental use, indirect harm from the threat of use), I believe they contributed more to peace in the world today.

    Open carry in the US has successfully been used to deterr police from harassing innocent people.

    • ShareMySims@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      15·
      10 days ago

      Open carry in the US has successfully been used to deterr police from harassing innocent people.

      Or to encourage them (not that they needed any encouragement) to summarily execute Black and other marginalised people.

      I generally agree with your point about the threat of violence being effective, but also feel like you’re missing the mark slightly, since the threat of, and actual violence have been held over our heads as the working class for millennia, rather than us using our combined power to hold that threat over the heads of our oppressors until there are none and threats are no longer needed.

      And this is the case because the state has a monopoly on violence, and why us threatening is no longer (and has never really been) effective, only actions will be.

      • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        9 days ago

        How many protests in 2020 were busted up by the cops when the protesters were open carrying? How many were busted up when the people had no means to defend themselves? The answers are zero, and a shit ton.

  • cacheson 💤@piefed.socialEnglish
    137·
    10 days ago

    It drives me fucking mad when people arguing for total civilian disarmament double down with “well I think the cops should be disarmed too 😏😏😏”. My Sibling In Christ, what do you think is going to happen when you advocate for total disarmament of civilians and police? Civilians are going to be disarmed first, and then cops are going to be disarmed NEVER.

    I know the comic isn’t just about guns, but this is one instance of that larger pattern.

    • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
      72·
      10 days ago

      … y’all know there’s other countries, right? And that in those countries there’s cops? A lot of those cops genuinely do not carry guns, because neither does anyone else.

      Police in Iceland shot a guy for the first time ever in 2013.

      Even in US-adjacent Canadia, the Parliament Hill shooting saw a mountie go back to his office, retrieve a gun from a locked safe, and return to the scene to kill the shooter.

      We can have police who aren’t eternally three seconds away from putting a bullet in someone’s brain. In what universe is that less achievable than abolishing them completely?

    • ShareMySims@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      4·
      10 days ago

      I know the comic isn’t just about guns, but this is one instance of that larger pattern.

      The comic (or this community) isn’t about civilian disarmament at all

  • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
    6·
    10 days ago

    The actual argument is to limit violence to specific institutions - what those institutions do is perpendicular. For example, neither desegregation nor the Holocaust were “status quo,” but both relied on limiting who could threaten force.

    Proliferation isn’t a safe bet, either, as shown by Mexico’s cartels. Democratic power structures at least theoretically reflect everyone’s concerns. Plain old gangs tend to assert control through merciless terror. However you feel about American power structures - you probably won’t get shot in your home for tweeting ‘man, I hate these power structures.’

  • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    9 days ago

    These comics always bother me because while I agree with their message it’s clear that the author is just using them to have a bit of a power fantasy. No conservative would ever act like that in response to being challenged.

  • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
    32·
    10 days ago

    Perhaps, instead of trying to turn everything in life into a “gottcha” moment, an honest person could recognize that such a saying speaks to how violence should be a last resort, while still maintaining a sober recognition that we live in a world where there are many others who may not respect our opinions on the matter, and therefore we should remain prepared to confront the eventuality of conflicts arising with such people.

    • zaph@sh.itjust.works
      2·
      10 days ago

      violence should be a last resort

      Still doesn’t explain why every single cop gets a gun instead of just something like swat.

      • TriflingToad@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        01·
        9 days ago

        In the case of an active shooter you want someone there instantly. Every second is a higher risk of life lost. SWAT takes like 30m to an hour to set up, they’re for more tactical or planned situations. A cop can be there in like 5 mins depending on the location.

        The goal is that cops get there and
        a: rush in and take care of the suspect (dead or alive), or
        b: get the suspect barricaded

        which at that point they can call SWAT in to de-escalate with the phones they throw in windows or megaphones.

          • TriflingToad@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            03·
            9 days ago

            so instead you’d rather shooters have full access to school for 30+ minutes while SWAT panics from the next town over? Like I get that one option isn’t good but I’d rather have cops than nothing.

            I’ve literally had someone in MY LUNCH PERIOD with a gun at school literally last year. If they decided they wanted to start firing they’d have literally 500+ kids in that cafeteria, myself included.

            • zaph@sh.itjust.works
              3·
              9 days ago

              Ideally access to guns would be more strictly regulated across the board and not just with cops. But the thing you’re complaining about is literally happening right now even with every cop having a gun so your emotional response isn’t going to work on me.

        • Flocklesscrow@lemm.eeEnglish
          3·
          9 days ago

          Hmmm. And in the case of Uvalde? How many seconds did those children endure?

          Your premise was dead on arrival as the courts have repeatedly signaled that police have no obligation to serve or protect anyone.

          Crime is a function of economic disparity. If cops really wanted to bust drugs, or always have a criminal to collar, all they’d have to do is raid any financial firm in any major city. They’ve all got booger sugar in their desks, and wage theft remains the most widely unenforced crime in the US. So obviously, the logic tells us that cops are not crime solvers, they are there to perpetuate socioeconomic status quo.

      • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
        06·
        9 days ago

        You have to be a little bit smarter than just taking isolated phrases on their own, if you want to actually explore the how and the why of the function of an entire society.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
      1·
      10 days ago

      The statement is mostly uttered by people who just turn a blind eye to the violence enacted everyday by the system. Get off your high horse.

      • Mango@lemmy.world
        13·
        9 days ago

        Those specific people should have them. Your average Kyle who can’t determine the difference between their gun and their vape should not have them.