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@sketches
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161Y

Take advice from doctors, not the internet, and most definitely not Lemmy.

Is reddit and 4Chan better than Lemmy for medical advice?

@AgreeableLandscape
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Note that none of this is medical advice. The jury is still out on how long covid immunity actually lasts, but we do know that it definitely isn’t lifetime immunity like some other diseases. So I suspect that getting more boosters later on would be helpful, but probably not very soon after you already had one. That is, if the vaccine formulation is unchanged. If they release a new version that better defends against the new variants, then obviously that would have immediate benefits.

@pingveno
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61Y

My understanding was also that the immunity itself was fading and the booster acts as sort of a reminder. A double booster spaced closely together wouldn’t really serve any purpose. The immunity is already back to full strength.

@upvotebot5
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Yeah pretty much this

@nutomic
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You might be healthy, but you shouldnt think only about yourself. Pharma companies made record profits from vaccination programs (for which governments spent billions of euros of tax money). If people stop getting vaccinated, the profits will fall, and stock value will decrease. It could even be the trigger for an economic crisis.

So you should definitely get more booster shots, and tell others to do the same. I hope this simple economic argument can convince some of those egoistic anti-vaxers.

@pingveno
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61Y

Pharma companies made record profits from vaccination programs

Vaccinations are one of the least profitable pharmaceuticals. It’s not uncommon for medication for chronic diseases to cost hundreds of dollars per month if not more.

@nutomic
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51Y

And how many of those medications are sold per year? Probably not a lot. In comparison, there were hundreds of millions of Covid vaccinations sold over the past year. Iirc each one costs about 10-20€ based on leaks. So you can calculate how much money they earned.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations

I say there was a fine dollar to earn from medications for covid patients.

@nutomic
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11Y

Coronavirus cases: 326 million (many of those mild, or happened during first wave) Vaccines: 9.630 million doses globally

So they are completely different orders of magnitude.

@officialfactchecker
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@officialfactchecker
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@nutomic
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Porn is against the rules. Remove the link and dont post anything like that again or I will ban you.

Each set of vaccines makes the pharma companies richer by $13-18 ($13 for Indian Covaxin and $18 for Pfizer). Others may be within or around this range. The valuation of vaccine maker companies skyrocketed beyond anybody’s guess.

Pfizer even demanded a legal protection contract from Indian government for absolutely no possible cases of suing in case there were adverse or fatal effects. Media is supposed to keep up narrative in favour of vaccines, hence any criticism is suppressed as “anti vax”. Indians knew well to prefer our own Covaxin instead of Astrazeneca (Indian version), as quite the number of people experienced Bell’s Palsy among other acute symptoms like vomiting or lot of weakness.

Do you not see the conflict of interest?

@morrowind
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31Y

I’m not an ati-vaxxer but that argument would discourage me from getting vaccinated, knowing big pharma is making profit from it.

@edward
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That’s his point. It’s thinly disguised anti-vax nonsense with an anti-capitalist twist.

@upvotebot1
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Injecting yourself with 4 experimental vaccines in the span of two years each containing preservatives directly into your blood stream can only benefit society. Big Pharma can not possibly fund the studies that say infinite boosters will be needed to avoid cold like symptoms the rest of your life. No one profits. All money spent is deposited into poor peoples bank accounts. This has been fact checked by fact checkers not funded by those with moderna stock.

@pinknoise
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directly into your blood stream

mRNA vaccines (I guess that are to ones you are talking about) are not injected directly into the bloodstream. Please at least try to get your bullshit straight.

@chiefstorm
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41Y

can you elaborate on what “preservatives” are?

I understand and appreciate the skepticism to vaccines, I am genuinely curious to know the precise problem they cause though?

Do they make people autistic?

removed?

gay?

@upvotebot1
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Definitely removed

Here is a few in the flu vaccine.

Preservatives? Stop right there, chief. This is certainly not skepticism in good faith.

@upvotebot2
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@Nyaa
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@upvotebot1
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@pingveno
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My cousin (older generation, so middle aged) got COVID-19 before the vaccine came out. She spent three weeks in bed and experienced lingering symptoms for months after. She was in great shape, a competitive swimmer. Being healthy will help, but plenty of athletes have been put flat on their back.

@upvotebot5
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What about other vaccines, what do you think about them?

@upvotebot1
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I don’t remember one where people thought they might need 4 in less than two years. So those seem to work better than these idk though not a scientist.

I also don’t remember any like that.

@upvotebot5
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Helix 🧬
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31Y

Probably only about 5-6 months after your 3rd.

@upvotebot5
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No

@seragold
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It wasn’t worth getting the first shot. And if you are under 40 your odds of bad health consequences from COVID are vanishingly small to start with. Stop lining the pockets of Big Pharm which isn’t even liable for harm from these products.

@a_Ha
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21Y

Preliminary results from israel’s 4th shots should help us answer this question : “antibodies goes up five times” ! OK, but … are those antibodies still very effective ? We have no better option than reading the results when the studies are published.

realcaseyrollins
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Under those assumptions, yes, so long as the benefits are either equal or exponentially greater than the benefits from getting prior shots

@TheAnonymouseJoker
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Disclaimer: this is not professional medical advice.

That said, my dad is a doctor. And we discuss this stuff a fair lot. To understand this, let me make clear what vaccines do, in one line. They stimulate body’s immune system, and create antibodies for the first line of defense. The second line of defense is B and T cells, which work differently, based on your diet (the multivitamin side treatment is to supplement this line of defense).

This is not merely personal observation. The basic rule is to allow body to fight as much as it can, with minimal supplementation. The more drug reliance, the weaker your body is in fighting. There has to be a level of moderation with how many doses you should take. And I do not think there is anyone, except those that have to sell you the drug/vaccine, that think hooking yourself up with vaccines/drugs every few months is going to make your body resilient on its own.

There is one more point I want to make. There will come one day, when you will be exposed to COVID. I am sure a lot of people have already encountered one of the strains by now, unless they do not participate in society and live in the woods. Even with the vaccine, you have to fight it out atleast once in your life. What about then? Will you want to fight it out with a weak immune system, heavily reliant on the 4th or 5th booster dose? Or will you want to have some natural immunity developed as part of the herd?

We can ponder over these thoughts. I have received two doses of Covaxin in India and have recovered from Omicron variant as well.

@pinknoise
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Will you want to fight it out with a weak immune system, heavily reliant on the 4th or 5th booster dose?

Vaccines do not weaken your immune system in the long term. They are meant to do the opposite. A vaccine fakes an infection to trigger your immune system to respond to the threat so your body is prepared for the real thing. This will make you weaker in the short term (since you are basically going through an illness). However I fail to see any mechanism that would make your body reliant on it.

Drugs are meant to protect you, however everyone knows that there should not be created a reliance on them in long term. This is why even the course for antibiotics or antivirals lasts 5-7 days atmost. The only long term medicines I have seen are for blood sugar regulation for old age people. There might be some others as well.

Vaccines before this have meant to be taken over a long gap, not every few months. Take for example tetanus, booster every 10 years. Hepatitis A/B, 2-3 doses over 12 months, no boosters. Pre-exposure Anthrax vaccine, 5 doses in 18 months and thereafter annual boosters. (Sourced from CDC’s website)

The closest I see is the Anthrax example. 3 months for the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines does not make sense, when the Indian and Chinese inactivated vaccines are far superior and do not lose their efficacy within 3-6 months.

@Jeffrey
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61Y

This is not correct.

MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with COVID-19 is better than the immunity I get from COVID-19 vaccination.

FACT: Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to COVID-19 than getting sick with COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

Emerging evidence shows that getting a COVID-19 vaccine after you recover from COVID-19 infection provides added protection to your immune system. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/prepare-for-vaccination.html

I never said to not take the vaccine, I am only presenting a cautionary tale against boosters this frequently. I took the Indian Covaxin, and after that I have recently recovered from Omicron as well.

Vaccination beforehand is indeed a safer way to protect yourself. However, at some point you will have to develop natural immunity, because COVID is extremely infectious and human to human transmissible.

The frequency of boosters is what I take an issue with, because this is not the case with Indian or Chinese inactivated vaccines. To a lot of doctors, the issue seems with the mRNA and the adenovirus platforms used for vaccines made in USA and UK.

Here is a reputed doctor, who has successfully treated over 8000 COVID patients in South Africa, explaining about spike protein reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7PokX4kz30

@factchecker
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fact check

Myth

Vaccines provide immunity as good or better than natural immunity

Verdict

False

Here are the facts

Study after study has shown natural immunity to be superior , longer lasting and more resistant to new variants than vaccination.

More than 100 studies all show the same thing. This of course should be obvious to anyone as the vaccine only targets the spike protein whereas natural immunity targets all parts of the virus.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210915/Natural-SARS-CoV-2-infection-induces-more-durable-immunity-than-vaccination.aspx

@pingveno
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51Y

Study after study has shown natural immunity to be superior , longer lasting and more resistant to new variants than vaccination.

Let’s say that’s true (and that one paper is not conclusive proof). That still means going through COVID-19 with all of its hazards for short term and long term health effects. Vaccines might put you down for a day, but that’s about it. That means it’s more practical to have a couple of boosters per year if necessary.

@upvotebot1
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-121Y

Tell that to the thousands who have died due to the experimental covid vaccines as seen in the vaers database

@pingveno
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81Y

Not this whopper again. The VAERS database is a surveillance database with unverified reports. Anyone who is affected by anything after having taken the vaccine can get in there. That allows public health officials to quickly recognize patterns that affect tiny portions of the population. But what they are looking for is numbers that are unusual. There are a certain amount of deaths that you expect in a population, so just counting up deaths in the database and saying “Ah ha! Thousands of deaths!” is incredibly misguided. There simply is no demonstration of causality.

@sexy_peach@feddit.de
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They’re going to repeat this lie again and again because they don’t have anything better. Typical anti-vax

mekhos
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31Y

‘There simply is no demonstration of causality.’

Oh if only that would be an obstacle for antivaxers ;)

@upvotebot1
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-31Y

Oh yeah the sudden huge spikes in death means nothing. Geez you people.

@pingveno
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41Y

Around 200 million people have been vaccinated, with those numbers skewed towards older and otherwise medically vulnerable people. I would be suspicious if there weren’t a few thousand deaths.

VAERS is just a very bad example.

Gritty
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31Y

So then who’s facts are fact-facts?

@factchecker
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-51Y

Obviously mine because I am the official Lemmy fact checker. Just look at my name. You cannot deny the fact that fact checker is literally in my name.

worst troll ever, but thanks for the entertainment and activity on lemmy

@abbenm
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21Y

I’d love to know if IP addresses can be checked to see if they’re the same as one of the other accounts in this thread

Admins could technically see it. I don’t think lemmy has yet implemented it and in the past it was always pretty obvious which accounts were alts

Probably are. Anti VAXers are all Granny murderers

Gritty
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41Y

Lol good one. I mean, how official are you then? What are your qualifications over anyone else on the internet?

Not shit talking Here, just playing devil’s advocate for the sake of argument that everyone has their own facts.

@upvotebot1
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-41Y

He is as official as every other fact checker I can tell you that for sure.

mekhos
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-21Y

Omg username-power works, I just upvoted you

@upvotebot1
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Thanks. I believe in you.

@abbenm
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@upvotebot5
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