Wondering if anyone here is going to march to oppose the fascist corporate/gov power grab that is denying Americans the right to put bread on the table if they don’t take a pharma product that does not stop the spread or infection of SARS-COV-2

down daemon
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106 mesi

cough yourself to death, rat

@WhiskeyJuliet
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-65 mesi

Found the peaceful tolerant liberal…

@craftingwithbits
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-66 mesi

I take it you are not going then. Freedom of choice is nice, isn’t it?

@nutomic
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-36 mesi

No personal attacks, this is a warning. Also, I just explained in this comment that we dont have any rules regarding “anti-vax”, so please stop making such reports.

@daelphinux
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06 mesi

@craftingwithbits@lemmy.ml be sure to tell all your friends: Lemmy.ml allows for Anti-Vaxx posts explicitly. There will be no censorship!

I’m sure this will end swimmingly. /s

@WhiskeyJuliet
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-35 mesi

Before I was allowed to take the vaccine, I had to sign a waiver saying that I understood the vaccine had not undergone full testing, and that if I were to experience any injury or, God forbid, death, it was not the fault of the government or Johnson & Johnson.

Do you really think it’s reasonable to demonize people who don’t want to sign such a waiver over a disease that, statistically, most have no chance of dying from?

@craftingwithbits
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6 mesi

"@craftingwithbits@lemmy.ml be sure to tell all your friends: Lemmy.ml allows for Anti-Vaxx posts explicitly. There will be no censorship!

I’m sure this will end swimmingly. /s"

I see you are caught up in the emotions of this debate, as evident by your exaggerations. I invite you to take breath and recognize it is just a disagreement, no big deal. You have the rights to your views and I, mine. For the record, it is an anti-mandate march, not anti-vax.

Pharam has paid billions in fines for lying about product safety. There is room and reason for someone to be doubtful of their assurances of safety and we should have the right to make up our own minds.

This isnt anti-vax. If you want it, take it, no one is arguing against it or using force/coercion to stop you from taking it. But force/coercion is being used to force ppl to take it and that is what the march is against. The mandates. It’s too much power to surrender over to the government.

@nutomic
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-16 mesi

Fully agree with this. Its sad how blindly much of the left is defending the interests of pharma companies, without even realizing it.

@Zalamander
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36 mesi

It bothers me how easy it is for society to become so polarized on issues like this. I feel rather powerless, stuck somewhere in between what society has agreed to call the pro- and anti-vax :-/

@craftingwithbits
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-26 mesi

Disease is scary. Pandemics are scary. I understand the fear. But corporate media is cranking it up, from president Biden talking about a winter of death, to the death counters… slowly alot of lies are being uncovered… counting hospitalized WITH covid vs FROM covid, Pfizer ceo admitting vax don’t work (to sell the new one of course)

If you listen to Hitler’s rhetoric that whipped up the Germans to dehumanize their Jewish neighbors, it had a lot to do with disease, and Goebbels talks alot about using fear to control a population. It’s why Mass formation Psychoses is being talked about now

the pro-vax / anti-vax dichotomy is just the ruling elite engineering classic divide and conquer, manipulating us at any opportunity to attack each other so we don’t see the massive transfer of wealth into the pockets of transnational corporations

I mean just look at this thread. A comment telling me to cough myself to death and calling me a rat (Echoes of Hitler’s anti-jew rhetoric) for not trusting massive corporations that have been fined BILLIONS for lying about their products to us in the past has several up votes. That level of dehumanization/rage/hatred is the goal of a massive propaganda machine pointed at us right now.

So I disagree that society has agreed to this. This is a manufactured perception that the majority blindly trust the Corporate/Gov alliance. It is not real. The evidence is in that they have to censor. Because the truth can shatter the illusion they are constructing.

They censor doctors, congressional testimony, saying only they ARE Truth and Science and questioning them is not allowed. They know they are the minority which is why they seed that censorious desire in those who are easily manipulated. “Don’t let them talk! Their words are dangerous and harmful! Anti-vaxxer! Misinformation!”

They amplify the fear, reminding us at every turn that the threat is in the air we breath and they are using it to take away our rights and turn us against one another.

That’s why I’m marching on 1/23

@Zalamander
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46 mesi

I agree with you to some extent, but not completely.

I think that making a comparison of anything to Hitler is polarizing language and is unlikely to lead to a constructive discussion. One can perfectly well explain these concepts without needing to bring up historical references, and bringing up this specific reference does little less than adding ‘shock’ value. This language directly antagonizes the people with different views.

Pfizer ceo admitting vax don’t work (to sell the new one of course)

This is obviously not true, and this is also a very polarized statement. Vaccine manufacturers have a strong economic incentive to push their product and they also have a lot of money to invest in marketing, this can’t be denied. Vaccines work and the COVID vaccine is effective and has a low adverse effect risk, this is also established well beyond reasonable doubt. There is a lot left to discuss, but that discussion is nuanced.

As for the rest, I don’t give as much credit to the ‘elite ruling class’ as you do. I don’t think that they are as coordinated and capable. I think that the world and society is shaped by many different social and political forces, and that these follow “natural” laws if they can be called that. The elite have a massive influence because they can move a huge number of resources, but I think that their influence is rather chaotic in the long term. Corporate media is propaganda but I have never heard anyone say otherwise, so not much to add there.

So, with regards to:

So I disagree that society has agreed to this.

I don’t place the elite above society, I believe that we are all in this mess together. But this is really a personal opinion and not something that I can show you with hard evidence, so we can just disagree here without problem.

As for censorship, there is more censorship than I would like. I do understand the logic of censorship. Making false claims is much much much easier than thoroughly debunking them, so censorship can save a lot of time and effort. On the other hand, I think that it is our responsibility to assess whether a claim is true. I have also seen many cases of censorship of content that is perfectly legitimate. The censorship itself is rather mediocre too, though, because all of this censored content is easily available.

That’s why I’m marching on 1/23

Thank you for marching! I applaud your activism.

@craftingwithbits
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06 mesi

I appreciate your considered response.

I agree that the “elites” are not fully in control, but by god are they trying. I don’t trust this massive gov/corporate alliance that is pushing something under the threat of talking away rights and creating second class citizens. It went from 95% effective to 30 someting, from 1 shot to 1 jab to 2 to 3, from break-through cases to finally admitting the efficacy wanes and vax does not stop the spread. Mandates are not justified.

Now a new DOD internal report from a year ago recognizes the various early treatments and the possibility of lab-leak. Even that it’s a POSSIBILITY should have everyone scrambling to determine what happened to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Instead, the leadership publicly calls it a “conspiracy-theory” but privately talks about it in a more somber way.

(I hope I don’t trigger to many ppl by linking to project veritas, but please consider the message and documents. I link so you don’t just need to take my word for it: https://www.projectveritas.com/news/military-documents-about-gain-of-function-contradict-fauci-testimony-under/)

Pandemic policy of sending ppl home until symptoms worsen vs giving Ivermectin or Fluvoxomine or monoclonol anti-bodies to help slow viral replication. Choosing mandates instead of public health messaging presenting all the real options and risks so that ppl can make up their own minds. Denying ppl medications, like Ivermectin, on the WHO list of essential drugs, with over 40 years of use in humans with an excellent safety record. Why?

Then there is the censorship. The coordinated messaging of: misinformation, anti-vax, conspiracy-theory, that language is harmful! It’s so patronizing, as if though ppl can’t think for themselves, they need corporate overloards to curate ideas that can be considered. And they censor experts in the field of virology, congressional testimony, talking about early treatment.

Lab leak was a bat s$%t crazy conspiracy theory… then the Eco Health alliance grant from NIH and the specifics came out… maybe not so crazy after all. Should it be censored? What if it is true that some beurocrats went against all the warnings and funded this dangerous research and MAYBE led to this pandemic? Shouldn’t we be talking about that?

If there has ever been evidence of elite coordination across media, social media, gov and corporations, public social control propaganda strategies, this is the starkest example of it, what we are currently living through

Anyway… I’m just concerned. I enjoy the freedom I have and want to make sure every American (ideally every human) has the right to choose for themselves: What they can say (within reason), what ideas they can consider, what medications they take, where they go, whether or not they want to put a mask on their kids, etc…

I don’t trust this corporate/gov alliance that has brought us endless war, terrible healthcare and education, and I don’t want to give them more power.

There are elites, and they are coordinating.

@keegomatic
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35 mesi

I won’t comment on the disagreement you two have, but I want to tell you that despite your disclaimer you have lost all credibility by linking to Project Veritas. Not digging on you, personally, but they literally fabricate stories to fit a far-right and conservative-funded agenda. It’s what they do, and it’s public knowledge. So, linking to their disinformation in order to support an argument you are making constitutes either a complete lack of awareness or active collaboration. Neither is a great look.

@toneverends
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25 mesi

The Intercept has done a few pieces considering the possibility of a lab-origin. In my eyes they’re more credible than Project Veritas, and the tone seems to be exploring possibilities not reaching conclusions, given the lack of quality evidence around the matter. https://theintercept.com/2022/01/12/covid-origins-fauci-redacted-emails/

@craftingwithbits
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-25 mesi

they literally fabricate stories

As far as I am aware, they have not lost a lawsuit going after publishers who have printed such accusations. Can you point me to one of their fabrications you allege?

Are you saying the DOD report they talk about is fake?

you have lost all credibility by linking to Project Veritas

I personally like to keep things about the information/data and not engage in guilt by association, or “everyone knows” types of arguments. That doesn’t help bring clarity. I’m arguing in good faith and found it revealing that internal DOD report acknowledges what admin is denying so vehmently in their push for more power over us by the government.

I expose myself to broad specturm of information and don’t dismiss things simply because of the messenger.

May I ask you if you are vaccinated?

@craftingwithbits
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16 mesi

You may ask, but I don’t disclose personal medical information as a rule. Why do you ask?

Just curious. I of course am vaccinated against COVID three times and against various other deseases.

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