The absolute fucking nerve of these freaks accusing anyone else of causing harm as their guy, for whom they are trying to shame us into voting, actively funds a genocide.
Imagine someone putting a piece of paper on your desk, imagine knowing that signing it means that fascists will be handed around that will be used to commit a genocide, killing thousands of innocents. And then imagine signing the paper instead of tearing it up in revulsion, like a sane human being would do. You have to be a literal demon to do something like that.
Genocide Joe doesn’t belong in the Hague, he belongs in a free Palestine in front of a war crimes and genocide tribunal there. If there were justice in this world he would be hanged.
You don’t think a 2nd Trump administration would fund a genocide? Why? What about Trump says to you, “Oh yeah, this guy would definitely put a stop to the mass-murder of brown people”?
Oh god oh no Trump might also continue genocide? Wow that would be… Exactly the same… How terrible!
“Oh yeah, this guy would definitely put a stop to the mass-murder of brown people”?
Nobody is saying they think he’ll stop it dickhead. Literally nobody in this thread has said that. But “Trump will be genocidal too” is not the defence of your guy that you seem to think it is.
I can fathom that’s what they want, but you can’t always get what you want, especially if what you want is neither a Democrat or Republican to win a state-wide election in the United States. Wanting something does not change the reality of the situation.
Where did I shame anyone? I’ve been trying to be polite, I haven’t thrown an insult once. I’ve extended more civility than has been granted to me. Though half of it seems to be residual anger at Reddit.
If you asked any of us to vote for genocide in person you would likely end up with spit on your face and maybe a fight on your hands. Don’t ask people to vote for mass murder if you want people to like you.
But when the choice is a straight fascist who’s talking like he’s going to put my queer friends in the fucking ground vs same old America, I’ll take same old America a little bit longer so the people I care about don’t fucking die in 2 years.
Biden is putting Palestinians in the fucking ground, but they’re not your friends, nor people you care about (our only two options will probably both do this, but we must work with these choices God gave us and ignore this). He put migrants in concentration camps, continued the sanctions regime for the starvation of the citizens of enemy nations, and wrought imperialism across the globe. But this is the “same old America” and Biden is only a “straight fascist” when he comes for the precious Americans at home. Well he did that with the crushing of the rail workers strike and the continuation of the same old poverty and racist systems. Is coming for your queer friends the one thing that makes someone a “straight fascist”? Biden could have used federal authority to work towards the suppression of anti-trans laws in backward states, but he didn’t.
Meanwhile organize, effect change, praxis. All that good jazz.
I love empty words, but tell me, what does this mean when you passively play the electoral game? What is this “effective change” and “praxis” (“all that good jazz”)?
Sucks that it’s our choice here, but I don’t think y’all are considering what a trump round 2 would look like. And we are playing with fire.
I was told that a second Trump term would see the U.S. pulling out of NATO (objectively good) and a national abortion ban (the Democrats already allowed Roe v. Wade to be repealed, and the defense among them has been that Biden does not have the power to do anything about this, as, woe, he was born into the wrong branch; given Trump would be the president as well, surely he would not have the power to institute such a ban) along with a bunch of unsubstantiated uncreative Hitler 3.0 stuff like “Trump Youth.”
Biden is putting palastinians in the fucking ground and that is a complaint, but voting or not voting in this election doesn’t change that. That’s not on the table. US is going to commit genocide no matter the winner and it fucking sucks. But what do you want me to do? You want me as a cis straight white man to tell my queer friends that I’m willing to sacrifice their life and safety to make a point? For what? To what end? What’s your preferred outcome here?
At the end of the day, I’m not an accelerationist. I have a preferred outcome here, and no amount of wishing for a 3rd choice will change anything. Not choosing ain’t gonna stop the choice from being made. And I’ll take the, however small, less worse choice than the other.
Voting as well has no effect on your effect you can do in your community. It doesn’t effect the orgs your in or whatever activism your up to. The best case scenario is you own the libs and while they scratch their head wondering for the billionth time why we won’t vote for them and change nothing, more people suffer than would have otherwise.
I am not willing to sacrifice people, especially knowing the groups targeted will not be me.
The dems have pulled this “You’d better vote for us because the other guy will literally kill you if they win!” thing since the 60s, they’ve just shifted around the minority group they target with their threats. Please listen to this 8 minute speech by Malcolm X, it’s incredibly relevant here.
Biden is putting palastinians in the fucking ground and that is a complaint, but voting or not voting in this election doesn’t change that.
Don’t you see that’s the point? You’re accepting the framework of the two party system. God gave us two options and it would be sacrilege to deny him! You’re allowing the “harm reduction party” to do harm unchecked, where opposing them in any meaningful way is impossible because it leaves the door open for the other party. You’re guaranteeing them unlimited stability so that you can feel good about yourself for “reducing harm” forever. It doesn’t matter if you hate the genocide against Palestinians or imperialism if in the end you have the same total political impact as a geriatric suburbanite pig who loves Amerikkka and the Democrats to the core. Again, what is this nebulous “praxis” you referenced?
If your queer friends care more about the potential “harm reduction” done by staying within the lines and allowing the 2.5th Reich to carry on its crimes unchecked than actually promoting independent political organization by driving votes away from the two “options” while there is mass discontent and the potential for a better future either through abstention or voting/campaigning for PSL, the Green Party, etc., then they’re not worth it.
I’m allowing the harm reduction party to do harm unchecked, and you are wanting people to suffer so they’ll see the error of their liberal ways. What you are advocating for is turning that gun around and firing it until the point is made. I am not okay with sacrificing people to stand on pride. If even one less person would die voting for Biden over trump, that’s my choice in this exact moment in time. I am not willing to sacrifice untolds number of people on the gamble that maybe the libs will get it this time.
They aren’t the “harm reduction” party though. They are the “A lot of harm” party, and they are trying to scare you by saying that the other party, the “Potentially even more harm” party is worse.
Would you rather be shot in the arm or the leg? Which one? Obviously you’d rather neither one, but you MUST choose one. You must! And you must choose again in 4 years, where it will be your spine or your lung to choose from, but you MUST choose then as well.
I’m sorry, but participating in this system in the hopes that it “buys more time” for the libs to “wake up” is incredibly stupid. That’s like participating in bashing someone up in the hopes that the other people bashing them will one day learn their lesson, while you’re actively there, participating in the same actions as them. Don’t you think that will just encourage them instead of waking them up?
If you want things to change, you start by making it clear that things need to change, instead of grumbling and accepting the status quo. Educating people on demanding more out of the system, (and hopefully much further than that) will do far, far more than just simply going along with the system and accepting the idea that being forced to pick between two actively genocidal parties is in any way acceptable. People vote because they, like yourself, seem to think that there is “no other option.” Things will never change if this is how we operate. The way things change is by teaching people that there are alternatives, and they can actually demand things of their government, instead of grovelling and begging, but always falling in line.
The best case scenario is you own the libs and while they scratch their heads…
Oh, here’s your problem! You are thinking like a child. This is what a child thinks elections are. You’ll never understand my position because you don’t understand the problem.
Your words are empty to me because i can tell by your attitude you do not “hear” what i am saying, or even hear the why of anything.
How could you? You are too busy deciding that everything, even genocide, must be viewed through the lens of the coming election.
Good god there’s gonna be a lot of masked liberals “talking sense to the left” coming up, huh?
Get better copypasta, because “don’t you care bout my queer/brown friends?” is already played out.
Biden is putting palastinians in the fucking ground and that is a complaint
You think anyone’s gonna take your unprincipled ass seriously when you call genocide a fuckin “complaint”, you don’t care about queer people motherfucker, you hide behind their struggles trying to maintain your crumbling sense of normalcy
I want Trump to win precisely because liberal cockroaches like you will be forced to pretend to take genocide seriously, and in that way LESS people will indeed suffer, because there will be more pressure to oppose fascism unlike today when even the libs have gone full Nazi
I’d sacrifice every cishet white Amerikan in this country for any oppressed subject-of-empire in the world in a New York minute. Death to the settler empire, death to the DNC. Voting absolutely does affect my community; do you realize that Biden has sent more military surplus through the 1033 program to PDs all over the country than Trump did with the same amount of time? The cops in my city are two steps and another humvee from being a whole-ass new branch of the military, some City Force-type shit, but “voting doesn’t affect the orgs in my community”, fuckin sure.
I hope to Fuck you’re the first one to learn the consequences of your electoralist garbage.
Hey as a queer person, fuck you. Get my community out of your fucking mouth. Biden has not done one single thing for me or for my community. Do not support genocide in the name of “protecting queer people.” Genocide does not protect us. Open slaughter of thousands upon thousands of innocent people does not protect us. Hiding behind the queer community in defense of genocide is cowardly and wrong. “Oh yeah well I have a queer friend” is the new white asshole way to say “well I have a black friend!” I am queer and you don’t get to use me as an excuse for genocide.
What has genocide Joe done to stop fascist state legislatures from passing anti-trans legislation? What has he done to prevent them from forcing women to give birth? What has he done to protect the victims?
I don’t know how to tell you this, but a conservative catholic octogenarian with a lifelong history of supporting racists, homophobes and oligarchs is not going to be a progressive just because there’s a D next to his name.
Those are valid complaints, and all day fuck Joe biden, but at the end of the day I am not an accelerationist. I see no argument from a leftist perspective for not voting for our shitty option unless you think things getting worse will make them better faster. What is the outcome you have in mind? Don’t vote to stick it to the libs, trump gets elected and then we all suffer that much more? For what?
Your choice isn’t between accelerationism or not, it’s how funny your buffoon in chief will be.
Considering the last 4 years of actual events, what makes you think your friends will be any safer under Biden than Trump? He hasn’t stopped any of the anti-trans legislation during his presidency, or anti-abortion, or anti-immigrant - who are you trying to protect? Who do you think you are protecting by voting 100% Hitler instead of 100% Hitler?
It’s the difference between lackluster do nothing, or active harm. Biden hasn’t stopped it but he’s not using his platform to push it. That’s a small difference but it’s a difference that effects actual people. Is one person not enough for you? Either all must be saved or just let other people make the choices? If you can’t have who you want you don’t get the privilege of not getting something. Your going to get something weather you like it or not. And I know I’m not going to be the target under trump. I don’t have the right to say the people who would be targets arent worth it.
Biden is using his platform to push for harmful shit, have you been living under a rock?
The genocide in Palestine is actively sided by the US Regime.
The meat grinder in Ukraine is actively sided by the US Regime and in large part started because of US blustering and has continued in part because of the US sabotaging peace talks.
Roe v Wade was overturned under Biden.
Biden has given more money to the police.
Anti-trans laws are seeing immense popularity under Bidens rule.
The border wall has been expanded.
Biden wants to do Trumps border policies.
The military has gotten more money under Biden.
Biden has been aggressively posturing against China both with Pelosis Taiwan visit and his claims about the “spy balloon” which were quietly retracted.
Biden has expanded fracking.
Biden was the one who decided we could “go back to normal” and declared covid over, despite being in the midst of a pandemic.
Biden is not a passive corpse just trucking along, he has expanded a shitton of awful things. You only perceive this as a status quo because your personal life has not gotten worse. Fuck you.
You can make a 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler argument if you want to, but you shouldn’t pretend it’s fascism vs no fascism. Zionism is fascism and should be labeled as such.
Zionism is fascism, Biden is a fascist, but Biden ain’t the one talking about declaring himself a dictator. Sure it’s 99 vs 100% Hitler, but there is no other option. And my morals say that when you have a bad choice and a worse choice, you don’t stand on pride and choose none just for the choice to be made for you.
but Biden ain’t the one talking about declaring himself a dictator. Sure it’s 99 vs 100% Hitler, but there is no other option.
Did Trump ever seriously talk about “declaring himself a dictator”? When you are only given the choices between 99 and 100% Hitler you reject the system and actually utilize the mass discontent instead of voting for the “least bad bad guys” regardless, effectively guaranteeing whatever they do is acceptable as long as they do not become the other guys.
My personal or our group rejection of the system has no actual material effect except to make things worse. You can’t just reject society without having the organized structure in place to actively rebel against it. Just not participating does nothing but make things worse.
Voting doesn’t stop you from organizing, unionizing and joining local organizations. It does nothing at all but make things worse. Is your argument accelerationist? Do you want things to get bad before getting better? If not I don’t see the point in your stance. I don’t want to be mean, I don’t mean to be rude. I genuinely do not understand. Do you not care what happens tomorrow?
Biden ain’t the one talking about declaring himself a dictator.
This doesn’t mean anything unless your head is still filled with magical liberal thinking. Either he has the power and support to be in power indefinitely or he doesn’t. People who can and will do coups don’t usually care about how you vote.
And my morals say that when you have a bad choice and a worse choice, you don’t stand on pride and choose none just for the choice to be made for you.
And my moral tells me that if I don’t live in a small pool of like 6 states, there’s absolutely no point in thinking about, let alone voting for, who gets to be president. Not all of us live in Georgia or Michigan. And unless you live in one of those 6 states, congrats, you’ve wasted your time and energy on something you have absolutely no control over.
Which is it? Dont vote and then shut up, or go out and organize? What you are seeing right now is a variant of people organizing - people going out and talking to each other, convincing that we dont actually have to vote for a genocider and that a better world is possible
I think you misunderstood me. I am saying do not just go vote and then chill. Voting does not stop you from organizing, volunteering and getting involved in your local community and leftist orgs. I’m saying voting is not the be all end all. It’s not the secret weapon. But it is a small, basically functionless tool for harm reduction.
“Harm reduction” is when you have a genocide in Palestine, a ceaseless and pointless meat grinder in Ukraine, kids in cages, expanded border walls, overturned Roe V. Wade, no pushback against anti-trans laws, immense inflation with no help, ignores a pandemic and give more money to the police.
Voting for Biden isn’t harm reduction.
So you should vote for trump then. If you believe him to be the less harmful of the two options. This is me baiting you to tell me you think trump is a less harmful option. Or did you not understand what harm reduction means? Or was is just not enough people whomst harm would be reduced for you to think it’s worth it? Or is the people’s whos harm would be reduced not be worthy of it?
I cannot in good conscious as a cis straight man tell my non binary partner that they need to be the sacrifice to the political statement of “sticking it to the libs”
I cannot in good conscious as a cis straight man tell my non binary partner that they need to be the sacrifice to the political statement of “sticking it to the libs”.
Holy shit, I missed this before. You are right now a cis straight man telling me, a non binary person, that the current climate isn’t an increase in harm. You are telling me that what Biden is doing is acceptable.
I didn’t want to pull that card, because it does not matter wether or not I personally experience the direct effects of the obvious fascist, but you pulled that card. Lol, lmao even.
Harm reduction is when you vote for a fascist who arms and funds Nazis in Ukraine, while arming and funding the mass murder of innocent children. Harm reduction is when we decide that genocide is not a red line, this time
I believe them both to be incredibly harmful pieces of shit and I don’t have to vote for either. If we’re going to pretend voting in any way matters, then we’re going to have to pretend that representative democracy functions. In a representative democracy you vote for a candidate which you feel represents you, not the candidate you feel is the least bad. In the absence of a representative, you do not vote for someone else, since that would then signal that they represent you.
Was it not enough people whomst harm would have been reduced.
Actually I don’t think doing a genocide is acceptable, even if the genocide happens to brown people. Call me a radical for that.
I understand what harm reduction means, which is why I pointed out how Biden has not reduced harm. Do you understand what the word “reduction” means? Harm reduction isn’t when you signal that “genocide is okay actually, and you don’t have to do anything about abortion or kids in cages or the pandemic or the climate or starvation or the police or the rise of organized fascist movements or anti-lgbtq laws or not arm actual Nazis”.
If it’s any consolation I’m going to not vote for Trump 10.000 times and only not vote for Biden 1.000 times, so that means I’ve actually given Biden 9.000 votes.
Trump is a less harmful option. Biden is funding Israel’s genocide because he rabidly wants to, at least with Trump there’s a chance he might bail in the middle of it just because he’s bored that day and he wants to cause some drama.
Liberals on were saying that the pro Palestine protests the other day “looked to coordinated to be grassroots” and are “Russian influence” because “they have the same goal as Putin” which is apparently making Biden look like an idiot?
Know how I know these libs have never organized? Because apparently they think protests are when a bunch of randos decide independent of each other to go to a place and hold glib signs. They can’t fathom that there are different groups that meet up and plan where the action will take place.
You’re absolutely right. I hereby refuse to vote Trump because I believe he would fund genocide. Do you pledge to not vote Biden because he funds genocide?
Regardless of who they vote for, there are only two possible outcomes to the election, unless one of the nominees dies before then. Either Trump will win, or Biden will win. If you want Biden to lose, that only happens if Trump wins.
I fail to see how the outcome of an election could affect a nation’s politics in a long-term meaningful way. Why are you so worried about an election? It’s a popularity contest for morons. Go buy a gun and learn to make some real change in the world.
Buy a gun for your son right away sir
Shake his hand like a man and let him play sir
Let his little mind expand, place a weapon in his hand
For the skills he learns today will someday pay, sir
And the way you get votes is by appealing to voters, not by scaremongering about the other candidate. That tactic especially doesn’t work when you platform is the same.
First-past-the-post voting incentivizes voting against the candidate you don’t want to win by voting for the candidate most likely to beat him. So scaremongering about the other candidate is a strategy often used to great effect. Trump used scaremongering against Hillary in 2016. Trump’s using scaremongering against Biden now. George H.W. Bush famously used scaremongering about crime to win.
Also their platforms are not the same. Trump has Project 2025.
And then you go on to cite the 2016 election.
Are you doing a bit? Do you not recall the pied-piper strategy the Dems tried? You keep referring to “successful” examples, but they’re all republicans lol.
I thought you were the one who said the Democratic and Republican platforms are the same. Now you’re noticing that the examples of winning with scaremongering are all Republican wins. Are you doing a bit?
??? Their platforms are the same, but the republicans actually want the platform enacted. Saying “vote for me or you’ll get the republican” doesn’t work when you have the same policy. Saying “vote for me or you’ll get the democrat” works for the republican, because republican voters think democrats are demons wearing skin suits.
What is it with you people and pretending you don’t understand basic textual communication? Do you think your sad attempts at gotchas aren’t noticed? Go back to Reddit and argue with a bot
The fascist are always going to have been scary rhing that make liberals fascism more palletable and swallowable, even if its in someways worse than the big scary republican bs. Lets just fuck off that whole thing completely
And the democrat platform is to let Republicans install planks of Project 2025 while Democrats have the ball; so fuck that line of thought too lmao. You’re not cudgeling this out for your genocidal dixiecrat.
If genocide Joe wants to win he has to make a compelling case that he is going to be meaningfully better than Trump on the issues that matters to voters.
Until now he has been working hard to make the opposite case.
Oh man, remember when it wasn’t going to be an issue because trump was going to jail any minute now we totally promise™?
How many daddy’s of the week have to be wrong before you stop believing he will he held to any account? You really think somehow, jack smith is going to do anything? Best bet is it will be another wet fart like Mueller or whatever the last daddy of the week was.
If enough voters suddenly developed a conscience and rejected genocide, voted third party, neither genocidal monster would win. But sure, be mad at the people who oppose genocide instead of all the little Nazis who support genocide.
If you’re not in a swing state then you could throw your support behind your preferred third-party candidate, or write in the name of literally any person you can think of who would cut off aid to Israel.
But not voting just says you’re OK with whomever the other voters pick for president. It says you don’t see a meaningful difference between Biden and Trump. And if you honestly don’t, OK, you’re allowed to think that. But in November, unless one of them dies, either Biden is going to win the election, or Trump is. The want to discourage people from voting against them. If you’re not voting you’re neutral so they don’t care as much.
This is great lol I’m surprised I haven’t seen this sooner. Can anyone (with more technical ability than myself) do a mashup of the opposite? I fear it’ll look scarily similar to Biff from Back to the Future.
From a pragmatic point it would be easier for the propaganda apparatus to explain away a smaller than usual turnout (voters are lazy, etc.) than a larger than usual this party vote.
Either way they’ll do their best to bury it though.
That’s why I advocate “undervoting”. Go vote, cast a ballot, but leave the spots with no good options blank. It shows that you aren’t a “lazy” voter, actually voted, and chose the hidden “none of the above” option.
I’m not ok with anyone being president because the USA shouldn’t exist and there’s no way of expressing this sentiment through voting for president. The president is an administrator of a death machine directed by capital. There’s no option for me to vote how I truly want nor do I believe calling for specific votes would be an effective route to secure my goal of nullifying the constitution and installing a communist government. Instead of worrying about the particulars of which genocidal fascist gets into office, I’ll instead direct my efforts towards dismantling the USA in its entirety.
Yeah I was hoping they’d respond with that, because the retort is of course “well in that case you can rest easy, because I will not be voting for Trump a lot more than I won’t be voting for Biden, thus giving Biden several votes”
I think Trump will fund a genocide. I know Biden is funding a genocide. I also know Trump was funding that same genocide four years ago when he was in office. When he moved the embassy just to appeal to the zionist monsters. Track record proven.
Also given that a lot of people are finally awakening to the reality experienced by Palestinians we can safely conclude that Obama, Bush, all the rest going back 75 years were funding a genocide. You really think you can shame us into supporting a system that is so demonstrably rotten to the core on some sort of lesser-evilism bullshit? The time to be fed up with this shit was decades ago. But it’s better late than never. That’s a real sentiment of lesser fucking evil.
Nah, soon as Trump’s in they’re gonna hard-pivot and pretend they bled their lily-white hearts out for Palestine the whole time their man was bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age. I remember how they acted about their Drone King the moment the White House was turned over.
An assailant is beating your family to death with a bat. But if you stop him, maybe another guy will come along and pick up the bat, and maybe he might be hypothetically stronger, so I guess you better cheer on the guy currently beating your family to death instead.
There are arguments as to why a Trump admin could also be theoretically better in terms (less competent, more easily swayed, might actually see opposition), but it doesn’t matter. Because if you’re playing hypothetical games at this point about a fucking genocide you’re just trying to excuse the fact you’re fine with it. And if that’s the case, fuck you.
hypothetical genocide under Trump vs. actual genocide occurring right now under Biden
The correct answer is C, none of the above. Two bourgeois genocidal freaks are our only options, and you don’t seem to see that as an extremely urgent problem
The absolute fucking nerve of these freaks accusing anyone else of causing harm as their guy, for whom they are trying to shame us into voting, actively funds a genocide.
Not just funding, delivers bombs for it too. The bombs falling are literally biden’s bombs.
Imagine someone putting a piece of paper on your desk, imagine knowing that signing it means that fascists will be handed around that will be used to commit a genocide, killing thousands of innocents. And then imagine signing the paper instead of tearing it up in revulsion, like a sane human being would do. You have to be a literal demon to do something like that.
Genocide Joe doesn’t belong in the Hague, he belongs in a free Palestine in front of a war crimes and genocide tribunal there. If there were justice in this world he would be hanged.
You don’t think a 2nd Trump administration would fund a genocide? Why? What about Trump says to you, “Oh yeah, this guy would definitely put a stop to the mass-murder of brown people”?
I think if you tell me “the other guy would fund a genocide” while your guy is funding a genocide, I’m gonna tell you to shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up.
😠
I haven’t seen you around for a while. Glad to see you’re still doing well, love this bit, you’re wonderful
❤️
Oh god oh no Trump might also continue genocide? Wow that would be… Exactly the same… How terrible!
Nobody is saying they think he’ll stop it dickhead. Literally nobody in this thread has said that. But “Trump will be genocidal too” is not the defence of your guy that you seem to think it is.
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You really that stupid that you can’t fathom that people would want neither to win?
I can fathom that’s what they want, but you can’t always get what you want, especially if what you want is neither a Democrat or Republican to win a state-wide election in the United States. Wanting something does not change the reality of the situation.
You don’t live in a real democracy. You can’t shame anyone here into voting in a sham election with two openly genocidal parties. Go back to
Where did I shame anyone? I’ve been trying to be polite, I haven’t thrown an insult once. I’ve extended more civility than has been granted to me. Though half of it seems to be residual anger at Reddit.
You’re asking people to vote for a genocidal warmonger, lmao that’s the insult genius, and it’s beyond a breach of basic civility
Go back to reddit liberal
If you asked any of us to vote for genocide in person you would likely end up with spit on your face and maybe a fight on your hands. Don’t ask people to vote for mass murder if you want people to like you.
😔
very true! another good example of that: you want us to support genocide joe but the reality of the situation is we never will.
How about standing up to your corrupt government instead of meekly taking part in the farce it has set up to control you?
Are you that cowardly that revolution isn’t even an option to you?
What about Biden winning is preferable? Same policies, at least trump is funny. Trump will probably radicalize more liberals too.
Ever wonder if youll be able to vote for a guy you aren’t positive will fund a genocide?
Ever get tired of advocating for something so very disrurbing? It must be ennervating, right? You thought Trump would be gone after the last time.
Ever ask yourself why you ask for so little?
Is it the pragmatic choice to make yourself so small?
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Biden is putting Palestinians in the fucking ground, but they’re not your friends, nor people you care about (our only two options will probably both do this, but we must work with these choices God gave us and ignore this). He put migrants in concentration camps, continued the sanctions regime for the starvation of the citizens of enemy nations, and wrought imperialism across the globe. But this is the “same old America” and Biden is only a “straight fascist” when he comes for the precious Americans at home. Well he did that with the crushing of the rail workers strike and the continuation of the same old poverty and racist systems. Is coming for your queer friends the one thing that makes someone a “straight fascist”? Biden could have used federal authority to work towards the suppression of anti-trans laws in backward states, but he didn’t.
I love empty words, but tell me, what does this mean when you passively play the electoral game? What is this “effective change” and “praxis” (“all that good jazz”)?
I was told that a second Trump term would see the U.S. pulling out of NATO (objectively good) and a national abortion ban (the Democrats already allowed Roe v. Wade to be repealed, and the defense among them has been that Biden does not have the power to do anything about this, as, woe, he was born into the wrong branch; given Trump would be the president as well, surely he would not have the power to institute such a ban) along with a bunch of unsubstantiated uncreative Hitler 3.0 stuff like “Trump Youth.”
Biden is putting palastinians in the fucking ground and that is a complaint, but voting or not voting in this election doesn’t change that. That’s not on the table. US is going to commit genocide no matter the winner and it fucking sucks. But what do you want me to do? You want me as a cis straight white man to tell my queer friends that I’m willing to sacrifice their life and safety to make a point? For what? To what end? What’s your preferred outcome here?
At the end of the day, I’m not an accelerationist. I have a preferred outcome here, and no amount of wishing for a 3rd choice will change anything. Not choosing ain’t gonna stop the choice from being made. And I’ll take the, however small, less worse choice than the other.
Voting as well has no effect on your effect you can do in your community. It doesn’t effect the orgs your in or whatever activism your up to. The best case scenario is you own the libs and while they scratch their head wondering for the billionth time why we won’t vote for them and change nothing, more people suffer than would have otherwise.
I am not willing to sacrifice people, especially knowing the groups targeted will not be me.
The dems have pulled this “You’d better vote for us because the other guy will literally kill you if they win!” thing since the 60s, they’ve just shifted around the minority group they target with their threats. Please listen to this 8 minute speech by Malcolm X, it’s incredibly relevant here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3dr-o4_fc
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
And what the fuck has Biden done about any of your concerns? You think he gives a fuck about LGBTQ people?
Don’t you see that’s the point? You’re accepting the framework of the two party system. God gave us two options and it would be sacrilege to deny him! You’re allowing the “harm reduction party” to do harm unchecked, where opposing them in any meaningful way is impossible because it leaves the door open for the other party. You’re guaranteeing them unlimited stability so that you can feel good about yourself for “reducing harm” forever. It doesn’t matter if you hate the genocide against Palestinians or imperialism if in the end you have the same total political impact as a geriatric suburbanite pig who loves Amerikkka and the Democrats to the core. Again, what is this nebulous “praxis” you referenced?
If your queer friends care more about the potential “harm reduction” done by staying within the lines and allowing the 2.5th Reich to carry on its crimes unchecked than actually promoting independent political organization by driving votes away from the two “options” while there is mass discontent and the potential for a better future either through abstention or voting/campaigning for PSL, the Green Party, etc., then they’re not worth it.
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You’re not fooling anyone. Go back to Reddit.
I’m allowing the harm reduction party to do harm unchecked, and you are wanting people to suffer so they’ll see the error of their liberal ways. What you are advocating for is turning that gun around and firing it until the point is made. I am not okay with sacrificing people to stand on pride. If even one less person would die voting for Biden over trump, that’s my choice in this exact moment in time. I am not willing to sacrifice untolds number of people on the gamble that maybe the libs will get it this time.
You can tell yourself that all you like but we can all see that plainly isn’t true
The only accurate statement you’ve made.
They aren’t the “harm reduction” party though. They are the “A lot of harm” party, and they are trying to scare you by saying that the other party, the “Potentially even more harm” party is worse.
Would you rather be shot in the arm or the leg? Which one? Obviously you’d rather neither one, but you MUST choose one. You must! And you must choose again in 4 years, where it will be your spine or your lung to choose from, but you MUST choose then as well.
I’m sorry, but participating in this system in the hopes that it “buys more time” for the libs to “wake up” is incredibly stupid. That’s like participating in bashing someone up in the hopes that the other people bashing them will one day learn their lesson, while you’re actively there, participating in the same actions as them. Don’t you think that will just encourage them instead of waking them up?
If you want things to change, you start by making it clear that things need to change, instead of grumbling and accepting the status quo. Educating people on demanding more out of the system, (and hopefully much further than that) will do far, far more than just simply going along with the system and accepting the idea that being forced to pick between two actively genocidal parties is in any way acceptable. People vote because they, like yourself, seem to think that there is “no other option.” Things will never change if this is how we operate. The way things change is by teaching people that there are alternatives, and they can actually demand things of their government, instead of grovelling and begging, but always falling in line.
Here’s that Malcolm X clip again, since you must’ve missed it the last time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3dr-o4_fc
Theyll never get it, thats the point. The third world suffer eternal because liberals dont care if thr wrist bending doesnt work
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Oh, here’s your problem! You are thinking like a child. This is what a child thinks elections are. You’ll never understand my position because you don’t understand the problem.
Your words are empty to me because i can tell by your attitude you do not “hear” what i am saying, or even hear the why of anything.
How could you? You are too busy deciding that everything, even genocide, must be viewed through the lens of the coming election.
Good god there’s gonna be a lot of masked liberals “talking sense to the left” coming up, huh?
Get better copypasta, because “don’t you care bout my queer/brown friends?” is already played out.
Wow, perfect! The liberal view in a nutshell. Things only have relevance to libs through the lens of the next election to them. Insight unlocked.
Genocide is a little bit more than a complaint. Especially given that americans are supposed to stop Trump from doing the exact same thing.
You think anyone’s gonna take your unprincipled ass seriously when you call genocide a fuckin “complaint”, you don’t care about queer people motherfucker, you hide behind their struggles trying to maintain your crumbling sense of normalcy
I want Trump to win precisely because liberal cockroaches like you will be forced to pretend to take genocide seriously, and in that way LESS people will indeed suffer, because there will be more pressure to oppose fascism unlike today when even the libs have gone full Nazi
Imagine taking his unprincipled ass serious when he can’t even spell Palestine correct when the fuckin nation’s been in the news for six fuckin months
I’d sacrifice every cishet white Amerikan in this country for any oppressed subject-of-empire in the world in a New York minute. Death to the settler empire, death to the DNC. Voting absolutely does affect my community; do you realize that Biden has sent more military surplus through the 1033 program to PDs all over the country than Trump did with the same amount of time? The cops in my city are two steps and another humvee from being a whole-ass new branch of the military, some City Force-type shit, but “voting doesn’t affect the orgs in my community”, fuckin sure.
I hope to Fuck you’re the first one to learn the consequences of your electoralist garbage.
Yes you fucking are, you’re willing to sacrifice 40,000 Palestinians and counting
Hey as a queer person, fuck you. Get my community out of your fucking mouth. Biden has not done one single thing for me or for my community. Do not support genocide in the name of “protecting queer people.” Genocide does not protect us. Open slaughter of thousands upon thousands of innocent people does not protect us. Hiding behind the queer community in defense of genocide is cowardly and wrong. “Oh yeah well I have a queer friend” is the new white asshole way to say “well I have a black friend!” I am queer and you don’t get to use me as an excuse for genocide.
Thank you for this.
getting a lot of mail out of the facts machine today
What has genocide Joe done to stop fascist state legislatures from passing anti-trans legislation? What has he done to prevent them from forcing women to give birth? What has he done to protect the victims?
I don’t know how to tell you this, but a conservative catholic octogenarian with a lifelong history of supporting racists, homophobes and oligarchs is not going to be a progressive just because there’s a D next to his name.
Those are valid complaints, and all day fuck Joe biden, but at the end of the day I am not an accelerationist. I see no argument from a leftist perspective for not voting for our shitty option unless you think things getting worse will make them better faster. What is the outcome you have in mind? Don’t vote to stick it to the libs, trump gets elected and then we all suffer that much more? For what?
Your choice isn’t between accelerationism or not, it’s how funny your buffoon in chief will be.
Considering the last 4 years of actual events, what makes you think your friends will be any safer under Biden than Trump? He hasn’t stopped any of the anti-trans legislation during his presidency, or anti-abortion, or anti-immigrant - who are you trying to protect? Who do you think you are protecting by voting 100% Hitler instead of 100% Hitler?
It’s the difference between lackluster do nothing, or active harm. Biden hasn’t stopped it but he’s not using his platform to push it. That’s a small difference but it’s a difference that effects actual people. Is one person not enough for you? Either all must be saved or just let other people make the choices? If you can’t have who you want you don’t get the privilege of not getting something. Your going to get something weather you like it or not. And I know I’m not going to be the target under trump. I don’t have the right to say the people who would be targets arent worth it.
Biden is using his platform to push for harmful shit, have you been living under a rock?
The genocide in Palestine is actively sided by the US Regime.
The meat grinder in Ukraine is actively sided by the US Regime and in large part started because of US blustering and has continued in part because of the US sabotaging peace talks.
Roe v Wade was overturned under Biden.
Biden has given more money to the police.
Anti-trans laws are seeing immense popularity under Bidens rule.
The border wall has been expanded.
Biden wants to do Trumps border policies.
The military has gotten more money under Biden.
Biden has been aggressively posturing against China both with Pelosis Taiwan visit and his claims about the “spy balloon” which were quietly retracted.
Biden has expanded fracking.
Biden was the one who decided we could “go back to normal” and declared covid over, despite being in the midst of a pandemic.
Biden is not a passive corpse just trucking along, he has expanded a shitton of awful things. You only perceive this as a status quo because your personal life has not gotten worse. Fuck you.
Death to Amerika, you settler fuck
Biden is a fascist, you shouldn’t imply he isn’t.
You can make a 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler argument if you want to, but you shouldn’t pretend it’s fascism vs no fascism. Zionism is fascism and should be labeled as such.
Zionism is fascism, Biden is a fascist, but Biden ain’t the one talking about declaring himself a dictator. Sure it’s 99 vs 100% Hitler, but there is no other option. And my morals say that when you have a bad choice and a worse choice, you don’t stand on pride and choose none just for the choice to be made for you.
Did Trump ever seriously talk about “declaring himself a dictator”? When you are only given the choices between 99 and 100% Hitler you reject the system and actually utilize the mass discontent instead of voting for the “least bad bad guys” regardless, effectively guaranteeing whatever they do is acceptable as long as they do not become the other guys.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-iowa-town-hall-d9cad413851b60f6c0abd2a564d86338
Yes, here is him saying it.
My personal or our group rejection of the system has no actual material effect except to make things worse. You can’t just reject society without having the organized structure in place to actively rebel against it. Just not participating does nothing but make things worse.
Voting doesn’t stop you from organizing, unionizing and joining local organizations. It does nothing at all but make things worse. Is your argument accelerationist? Do you want things to get bad before getting better? If not I don’t see the point in your stance. I don’t want to be mean, I don’t mean to be rude. I genuinely do not understand. Do you not care what happens tomorrow?
Freudian slip. It stops you from directing votes away from the two parties and showing that changes have to be made.
This doesn’t mean anything unless your head is still filled with magical liberal thinking. Either he has the power and support to be in power indefinitely or he doesn’t. People who can and will do coups don’t usually care about how you vote.
There is another option lmao, it involves everything around a bourgeoisie democracy
And my moral tells me that if I don’t live in a small pool of like 6 states, there’s absolutely no point in thinking about, let alone voting for, who gets to be president. Not all of us live in Georgia or Michigan. And unless you live in one of those 6 states, congrats, you’ve wasted your time and energy on something you have absolutely no control over.
There is another option. The French knew that when their Kings and Queens told them to eat cake.
The fact you don’t even consider that is sus. Gaslightng even.
Which is it? Dont vote and then shut up, or go out and organize? What you are seeing right now is a variant of people organizing - people going out and talking to each other, convincing that we dont actually have to vote for a genocider and that a better world is possible
I think you misunderstood me. I am saying do not just go vote and then chill. Voting does not stop you from organizing, volunteering and getting involved in your local community and leftist orgs. I’m saying voting is not the be all end all. It’s not the secret weapon. But it is a small, basically functionless tool for harm reduction.
“Harm reduction” is when you have a genocide in Palestine, a ceaseless and pointless meat grinder in Ukraine, kids in cages, expanded border walls, overturned Roe V. Wade, no pushback against anti-trans laws, immense inflation with no help, ignores a pandemic and give more money to the police.
Voting for Biden isn’t harm reduction.
#resist
So you should vote for trump then. If you believe him to be the less harmful of the two options. This is me baiting you to tell me you think trump is a less harmful option. Or did you not understand what harm reduction means? Or was is just not enough people whomst harm would be reduced for you to think it’s worth it? Or is the people’s whos harm would be reduced not be worthy of it?
I cannot in good conscious as a cis straight man tell my non binary partner that they need to be the sacrifice to the political statement of “sticking it to the libs”
Holy shit, I missed this before. You are right now a cis straight man telling me, a non binary person, that the current climate isn’t an increase in harm. You are telling me that what Biden is doing is acceptable.
I didn’t want to pull that card, because it does not matter wether or not I personally experience the direct effects of the obvious fascist, but you pulled that card. Lol, lmao even.
Harm reduction is when you vote for a fascist who arms and funds Nazis in Ukraine, while arming and funding the mass murder of innocent children. Harm reduction is when we decide that genocide is not a red line, this time
I believe them both to be incredibly harmful pieces of shit and I don’t have to vote for either. If we’re going to pretend voting in any way matters, then we’re going to have to pretend that representative democracy functions. In a representative democracy you vote for a candidate which you feel represents you, not the candidate you feel is the least bad. In the absence of a representative, you do not vote for someone else, since that would then signal that they represent you.
Actually I don’t think doing a genocide is acceptable, even if the genocide happens to brown people. Call me a radical for that.
I understand what harm reduction means, which is why I pointed out how Biden has not reduced harm. Do you understand what the word “reduction” means? Harm reduction isn’t when you signal that “genocide is okay actually, and you don’t have to do anything about abortion or kids in cages or the pandemic or the climate or starvation or the police or the rise of organized fascist movements or anti-lgbtq laws or not arm actual Nazis”.
If it’s any consolation I’m going to not vote for Trump 10.000 times and only not vote for Biden 1.000 times, so that means I’ve actually given Biden 9.000 votes.
Trump is a less harmful option. Biden is funding Israel’s genocide because he rabidly wants to, at least with Trump there’s a chance he might bail in the middle of it just because he’s bored that day and he wants to cause some drama.
Why do you think people aren’t organizing
Because they’re a liberal who has never considered political action outside of voting for the anointed dem every 4 years.
Liberals on
were saying that the pro Palestine protests the other day “looked to coordinated to be grassroots” and are “Russian influence” because “they have the same goal as Putin” which is apparently making Biden look like an idiot?
Know how I know these libs have never organized? Because apparently they think protests are when a bunch of randos decide independent of each other to go to a place and hold glib signs. They can’t fathom that there are different groups that meet up and plan where the action will take place.
Go back to Reddit
My money is that they were banned from reddit for being a weird pervert
banned?? not awarded and shipped a physical statuette like the mod of r/jailbait?
I’m sorry, fucking WHAT?
username was violentacrez, you can look it up if you want to pollute your mind
Holy shit, go back to reddit.
EDIT: This loser had a snoo profile picture, but they seem to have changed it to a…cartoon facebook avatar? After being mocked for their redditorness.
You’re absolutely right. I hereby refuse to vote Trump because I believe he would fund genocide. Do you pledge to not vote Biden because he funds genocide?
Why do you think they’re gonna vote for Trump? Clearly he is choosing not to vote for a presidential candidate who supports genocide.
Regardless of who they vote for, there are only two possible outcomes to the election, unless one of the nominees dies before then. Either Trump will win, or Biden will win. If you want Biden to lose, that only happens if Trump wins.
I fail to see how the outcome of an election could affect a nation’s politics in a long-term meaningful way. Why are you so worried about an election? It’s a popularity contest for morons. Go buy a gun and learn to make some real change in the world.
This needs to be site tag line.
Made me think of this song
Buy a gun for your son right away sir
Shake his hand like a man and let him play sir
Let his little mind expand, place a weapon in his hand
For the skills he learns today will someday pay, sir
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
And the way you get votes is by appealing to voters, not by scaremongering about the other candidate. That tactic especially doesn’t work when you platform is the same.
First-past-the-post voting incentivizes voting against the candidate you don’t want to win by voting for the candidate most likely to beat him. So scaremongering about the other candidate is a strategy often used to great effect. Trump used scaremongering against Hillary in 2016. Trump’s using scaremongering against Biden now. George H.W. Bush famously used scaremongering about crime to win.
Also their platforms are not the same. Trump has Project 2025.
And then you go on to cite the 2016 election.
Are you doing a bit? Do you not recall the pied-piper strategy the Dems tried? You keep referring to “successful” examples, but they’re all republicans lol.
I thought you were the one who said the Democratic and Republican platforms are the same. Now you’re noticing that the examples of winning with scaremongering are all Republican wins. Are you doing a bit?
??? Their platforms are the same, but the republicans actually want the platform enacted. Saying “vote for me or you’ll get the republican” doesn’t work when you have the same policy. Saying “vote for me or you’ll get the democrat” works for the republican, because republican voters think democrats are demons wearing skin suits.
What is it with you people and pretending you don’t understand basic textual communication? Do you think your sad attempts at gotchas aren’t noticed? Go back to Reddit and argue with a bot
The fascist are always going to have been scary rhing that make liberals fascism more palletable and swallowable, even if its in someways worse than the big scary republican bs. Lets just fuck off that whole thing completely
And the democrat platform is to let Republicans install planks of Project 2025 while Democrats have the ball; so fuck that line of thought too lmao. You’re not cudgeling this out for your genocidal dixiecrat.
If genocide Joe wants to win he has to make a compelling case that he is going to be meaningfully better than Trump on the issues that matters to voters.
Until now he has been working hard to make the opposite case.
reddit ass loser
So then I guess Biden should do a better job to get those voters.
Oh man, remember when it wasn’t going to be an issue because trump was going to jail any minute now we totally promise™?
How many daddy’s of the week have to be wrong before you stop believing he will he held to any account? You really think somehow, jack smith is going to do anything? Best bet is it will be another wet fart like Mueller or whatever the last daddy of the week was.
I want Biden to lose.
I also want Trump yo lose.
That’s why I’m not voting for either of them.
If enough voters suddenly developed a conscience and rejected genocide, voted third party, neither genocidal monster would win. But sure, be mad at the people who oppose genocide instead of all the little Nazis who support genocide.
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Not really.
If you’re not in a swing state then you could throw your support behind your preferred third-party candidate, or write in the name of literally any person you can think of who would cut off aid to Israel.
But not voting just says you’re OK with whomever the other voters pick for president. It says you don’t see a meaningful difference between Biden and Trump. And if you honestly don’t, OK, you’re allowed to think that. But in November, unless one of them dies, either Biden is going to win the election, or Trump is. The want to discourage people from voting against them. If you’re not voting you’re neutral so they don’t care as much.
There isn’t one
This is great lol I’m surprised I haven’t seen this sooner. Can anyone (with more technical ability than myself) do a mashup of the opposite? I fear it’ll look scarily similar to Biff from Back to the Future.
We do have
and 
, which are face mash-ups of every republican and democrat senator, iirc.
Trump doesn’t need to be combined with anyone to look like Biff
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From a pragmatic point it would be easier for the propaganda apparatus to explain away a smaller than usual turnout (voters are lazy, etc.) than a larger than usual this party vote.
Either way they’ll do their best to bury it though.
That’s why I advocate “undervoting”. Go vote, cast a ballot, but leave the spots with no good options blank. It shows that you aren’t a “lazy” voter, actually voted, and chose the hidden “none of the above” option.
I’m not ok with anyone being president because the USA shouldn’t exist and there’s no way of expressing this sentiment through voting for president. The president is an administrator of a death machine directed by capital. There’s no option for me to vote how I truly want nor do I believe calling for specific votes would be an effective route to secure my goal of nullifying the constitution and installing a communist government. Instead of worrying about the particulars of which genocidal fascist gets into office, I’ll instead direct my efforts towards dismantling the USA in its entirety.
Point me to the person who said they would vote for Trump. People aren’t willing to vote for a genocide.
Ohhhh I’ve got this one!
“Any vote not for Biden or not voting at all is a vote for trump”
Yeah I was hoping they’d respond with that, because the retort is of course “well in that case you can rest easy, because I will not be voting for Trump a lot more than I won’t be voting for Biden, thus giving Biden several votes”
I think Trump will fund a genocide. I know Biden is funding a genocide. I also know Trump was funding that same genocide four years ago when he was in office. When he moved the embassy just to appeal to the zionist monsters. Track record proven.
Also given that a lot of people are finally awakening to the reality experienced by Palestinians we can safely conclude that Obama, Bush, all the rest going back 75 years were funding a genocide. You really think you can shame us into supporting a system that is so demonstrably rotten to the core on some sort of lesser-evilism bullshit? The time to be fed up with this shit was decades ago. But it’s better late than never. That’s a real sentiment of lesser fucking evil.
I know a second Biden term will fund a genocide because that’s what the first Biden term is doing.
Go back to reddit
Would liberals support and back a Trump genocide, unlike the Biden genocide that IS currently happening
Nah, soon as Trump’s in they’re gonna hard-pivot and pretend they bled their lily-white hearts out for Palestine the whole time their man was bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age. I remember how they acted about their Drone King the moment the White House was turned over.
An assailant is beating your family to death with a bat. But if you stop him, maybe another guy will come along and pick up the bat, and maybe he might be hypothetically stronger, so I guess you better cheer on the guy currently beating your family to death instead.
There are arguments as to why a Trump admin could also be theoretically better in terms (less competent, more easily swayed, might actually see opposition), but it doesn’t matter. Because if you’re playing hypothetical games at this point about a fucking genocide you’re just trying to excuse the fact you’re fine with it. And if that’s the case, fuck you.
snoo pfp
Snoo pfp should be banned on sight
So your pitch is we should vote for Biden because he’ll do the same genocide that Trump will do?
I heard Trump has plans to send the US Navy to ensure the genocide continues, on top of funding Israel too!
We are saying both candidates are fascists and something more drastic than voting needs to happen
hypothetical genocide under Trump vs. actual genocide occurring right now under Biden
The correct answer is C, none of the above. Two bourgeois genocidal freaks are our only options, and you don’t seem to see that as an extremely urgent problem