I suppose that’s not really true, because western media is often open to bashing them (similarly networks like RT are more than happy to bash the west). I just wish you could find more criticism about a country coming from that same country, to help eliminate a bias against said country. I feel like the Russian censorship laws massively prevent this, and the Great Firewall of China makes it difficult to get a proper picture of what it is actually like there.
Capitalism controls big major media sources, but there are independent reporters, and they aren’t beginning persecuted unless it’s something huge like Julian Assange leak. But for small things and articles, western have more rights to protect those journalists. They can talk bad about their own country.
You contradict yourself. Assange is literally being persecuted, Snowden had to flee. Manning was jailed for years.
Either media is free or it’s not, if whistleblowers are being hunted then there is no free media. There cannot be free media anyway, it’s never existed and cannot exist.
Well, journalist can make a blog and say Europe and NATO is allowing Turkish to bomb Kurdistan or Iraq, there are a lot of blogs and articles explaining this shit. While you can’t read stuff like this on Russia or China, they need to post those articles anonymously with fewer data.
But the best about Europe/America and Journalism is that the journalist have the right to ask our governments for explanations. On china police can shoot someone and not see it on news, if that happens on America or Europe it will be on news.
Also, we aren’t talking about changing the world, the post asks why there is so much China/Russia support. I say that’s because those countries don’t allow bad news on their own territory, or it’s harder to get them by ways not official at all. I don’t contradict myself, most European and American governments has laws to declassifies confidential documents after X years. This law has important flaws, but at least they provide that to the media and people, Russia and China don’t have this.
The difference is that in Europe/America journalism have freedom to make blogs about what they want to, not about classified documents from government but yes about how racist and aggressive is their police or how bad and damaging are mega-factories or how bad are worker salaries or worker rights. Those small articles about your territory or country about bad things happening around. It’s like privacy on Europe, it’s a right we have, compared to America where police can read any message you are sending, this happens even worse on China and Russia. So the same happens with Journalism rights.
While you can’t read stuff like this on Russia or China
On china police can shoot someone and not see it on news
How do you know any of that for sure?
Police in China never kill anyone, they don’t even carry guns most of the time…
And I assure you Chinese citizens are more politically aware than the average European or American.
In the West we (claim to) use the media as a fourth extension of the state, to keep in checks and balances. But it doesn’t work out. It doesn’t matter what journalists say, nothing changes. George Floyd was killed by police in the US (no need to make up deaths in China to find an example) and even after 2 months of rightful rioting, the same people are in power and the same people on the ground are telling you to vote for the same 2 candidates. Doesn’t matter what journalists publish or say, when the establishment has worked out a way to keep them in check and even in their pocket.
Whereas in China, since we’re on that example, there are avenues to bring out issues officially. China is the biggest consumer of audits and polls in the world by far, they poll everyone about issues all the time.
That’s why their media doesn’t always talk about the same things. But you can go on English-language Chinese media yourself, like CGTN, CCTV, People’s Daily, China Daily and see for yourself what they talk about. You can also go on Weibo and see what they talk about too, I guarantee you it’s not the 1984 hellscape you think it is.
Police in China never kill anyone, they don’t even carry guns most of the time…
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN, THEY DID, CHINESE POLICE KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE. You just can’t read it on news unless you go to an anonymous source that explains you their fight against their authoritative state.
They have all the streets full of cameras, how you expect to not have the same control of the media press and TV and all their internet? You can’t know what are they really doing.
I’m sure those news are true, they are not fake news or propaganda, and those things are much worse than what is happening to the USA/Europe (but we are still very bad). That’s what happens when states are authoritative.
It’s bold of you to assume that a video filmed in HK of a cop shooting someone was censored in China and nobody heard about it. That was in fact the one person the police shot in the protests. As they say in the video, he tried to steal the officer’s weapon (not shown in the clip on CBS, it happened earlier). The officer had to answer why he discharged his weapon before a committee as like most civilised countries, police have to log every time they fire a bullet and then defend its use. I seem to remember he was reprimanded for this, but I don’t remember the specifics.
Do you know why the guy in black kept walking towards the cop? Because he thought he wasn’t gonna shoot. He was accustomed to the cops being very passive when aggressed. Do you see people in the US walking up like this to armed cops? No, because if they did, they would get shot to death.
Edit: also the guy in the video survived, so police in China still hasn’t killed anyone.
The other stuff has been debunked thoroughly in other places and is not part of the matter at hand so I’m not gonna reply to it myself. It’s just finding atrocity propaganda to justify intervention against China.
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN, THEY DID, CHINESE POLICE KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE. You just can’t read it on news unless you go to an anonymous source that explains you their fight against their authoritative state.
but how do you know that. Of course they have, but how do you know they are innocent, do you have evidence?
I agree, but it’s not a binary FREE/CENSORED. As long as you aren’t leaking documents you will often be fine, whereas in China/USSR even speaking bad about the party or using the wrong word for “war” can get you in trouble.
Yeah, it’s not binary, but in America and Europe, you can be a free journalist doing your own articles without control of those big companies, big companies just controls the mainstream. This means you can talk about more stuff compared to other countries where press is not free, and it’s even more controlled than our current capitalist system. That’s why Russia press can’t call “war” but here we can say NATO did war to a lot of countries without issues.
If you agree Western journalists are being persecuted for what they find out however, you should also probably agree that our media lies to us – including about China or the USSR.
Certainly! But just because some of the criticism they receive is biased against them doesn’t mean it is wholly false, and as I previously stated due to the much greater amount of censorship within those countries it is hard to find reliable opinions to the contrary.
I suppose that’s not really true, because western media is often open to bashing them (similarly networks like RT are more than happy to bash the west). I just wish you could find more criticism about a country coming from that same country, to help eliminate a bias against said country. I feel like the Russian censorship laws massively prevent this, and the Great Firewall of China makes it difficult to get a proper picture of what it is actually like there.
Capitalism controls big major media sources, but there are independent reporters, and they aren’t beginning persecuted unless it’s something huge like Julian Assange leak. But for small things and articles, western have more rights to protect those journalists. They can talk bad about their own country.
You contradict yourself. Assange is literally being persecuted, Snowden had to flee. Manning was jailed for years.
Either media is free or it’s not, if whistleblowers are being hunted then there is no free media. There cannot be free media anyway, it’s never existed and cannot exist.
Yes, but the point is to change it.
Well, journalist can make a blog and say Europe and NATO is allowing Turkish to bomb Kurdistan or Iraq, there are a lot of blogs and articles explaining this shit. While you can’t read stuff like this on Russia or China, they need to post those articles anonymously with fewer data.
But the best about Europe/America and Journalism is that the journalist have the right to ask our governments for explanations. On china police can shoot someone and not see it on news, if that happens on America or Europe it will be on news.
Also, we aren’t talking about changing the world, the post asks why there is so much China/Russia support. I say that’s because those countries don’t allow bad news on their own territory, or it’s harder to get them by ways not official at all. I don’t contradict myself, most European and American governments has laws to declassifies confidential documents after X years. This law has important flaws, but at least they provide that to the media and people, Russia and China don’t have this.
The difference is that in Europe/America journalism have freedom to make blogs about what they want to, not about classified documents from government but yes about how racist and aggressive is their police or how bad and damaging are mega-factories or how bad are worker salaries or worker rights. Those small articles about your territory or country about bad things happening around. It’s like privacy on Europe, it’s a right we have, compared to America where police can read any message you are sending, this happens even worse on China and Russia. So the same happens with Journalism rights.
How do you know any of that for sure?
Police in China never kill anyone, they don’t even carry guns most of the time…
And I assure you Chinese citizens are more politically aware than the average European or American.
In the West we (claim to) use the media as a fourth extension of the state, to keep in checks and balances. But it doesn’t work out. It doesn’t matter what journalists say, nothing changes. George Floyd was killed by police in the US (no need to make up deaths in China to find an example) and even after 2 months of rightful rioting, the same people are in power and the same people on the ground are telling you to vote for the same 2 candidates. Doesn’t matter what journalists publish or say, when the establishment has worked out a way to keep them in check and even in their pocket.
Whereas in China, since we’re on that example, there are avenues to bring out issues officially. China is the biggest consumer of audits and polls in the world by far, they poll everyone about issues all the time.
That’s why their media doesn’t always talk about the same things. But you can go on English-language Chinese media yourself, like CGTN, CCTV, People’s Daily, China Daily and see for yourself what they talk about. You can also go on Weibo and see what they talk about too, I guarantee you it’s not the 1984 hellscape you think it is.
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN, THEY DID, CHINESE POLICE KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE. You just can’t read it on news unless you go to an anonymous source that explains you their fight against their authoritative state.
They have all the streets full of cameras, how you expect to not have the same control of the media press and TV and all their internet? You can’t know what are they really doing.
Can you send me the news then?
I’m sure those news are true, they are not fake news or propaganda, and those things are much worse than what is happening to the USA/Europe (but we are still very bad). That’s what happens when states are authoritative.
It’s bold of you to assume that a video filmed in HK of a cop shooting someone was censored in China and nobody heard about it. That was in fact the one person the police shot in the protests. As they say in the video, he tried to steal the officer’s weapon (not shown in the clip on CBS, it happened earlier). The officer had to answer why he discharged his weapon before a committee as like most civilised countries, police have to log every time they fire a bullet and then defend its use. I seem to remember he was reprimanded for this, but I don’t remember the specifics.
Do you know why the guy in black kept walking towards the cop? Because he thought he wasn’t gonna shoot. He was accustomed to the cops being very passive when aggressed. Do you see people in the US walking up like this to armed cops? No, because if they did, they would get shot to death.
Edit: also the guy in the video survived, so police in China still hasn’t killed anyone.
The other stuff has been debunked thoroughly in other places and is not part of the matter at hand so I’m not gonna reply to it myself. It’s just finding atrocity propaganda to justify intervention against China.
but how do you know that. Of course they have, but how do you know they are innocent, do you have evidence?
I agree, but it’s not a binary FREE/CENSORED. As long as you aren’t leaking documents you will often be fine, whereas in China/USSR even speaking bad about the party or using the wrong word for “war” can get you in trouble.
Yeah, it’s not binary, but in America and Europe, you can be a free journalist doing your own articles without control of those big companies, big companies just controls the mainstream. This means you can talk about more stuff compared to other countries where press is not free, and it’s even more controlled than our current capitalist system. That’s why Russia press can’t call “war” but here we can say NATO did war to a lot of countries without issues.
the knee-jerk response to bash our comrades lol
Western media is completely controlled.
Six companies control all media.
A swiss study on media / news concentration and western propanda.
Lenin on this:
Some more capitalist monopolies:
https://imgur.com/a/xgnEp
Well, dictatorship states (also communist states) neither have free press and means exactly the same as your picture.
no one has free press, we just do away with the bullshit pretense
You can find on Patreon some free press journalist with real independence.
I prefer Mango Press.
If you agree Western journalists are being persecuted for what they find out however, you should also probably agree that our media lies to us – including about China or the USSR.
Certainly! But just because some of the criticism they receive is biased against them doesn’t mean it is wholly false, and as I previously stated due to the much greater amount of censorship within those countries it is hard to find reliable opinions to the contrary.
This entire thread in a nutshell