The particular group of internet dweebs being critiqued call themselves patriotic socialists or socialist patriots. That’s just kinda how language works. You can’t change it any more than you can stop libs from calling MLs tankies.
So i was right at first and it’s just an youtube circlejerk… No wonder nobody could answer me when i asked for something concrete, where are the names or the organizations. And to think i was banned for that from GenZedong (at that point it was not much loss but still).
Wait. Wait wait wait wait. Does this mean the most of internet spaces for english speaking ML’s abandon one of the most successful weapons in the arsenal of proletariat, weapon which has been used with great effect since Lenin first formulated the theory of socialism in one country, because of a fucking kneejerk reaction to an YOUTUBE CIRCLEJERK?!?
I mean the problem is a bit bigger than that, as these things always find a way to leak into real life once money gets involved. Their “movement” magnetically attracts reactionary (often white) guys who think converting MAGA chuds by acting like conservatives counts as “organizing” (they’re trying to get something going irl but who knows where it will go), and is more important than reigning in syndicalists and trade unionists to a communist party platform that won’t immediately split on gender/race/religion/sexuality lines (which itself is difficult, but that is how activism in the US tends to manifest). They also really hate queer people and complain about us constantly, which honestly just feels like punching down.
So at this point in time, patsoc is linguistically equivalent to “reactionary white ML” to most socialists. Within the sphere of regular ML communities and organizing, the reaction to this reaction are attempts to learn from theories ultimately based in Gramsci’s work on Hegemony — such that we don’t repeat the mistakes of past movements by ignoring the needs of sections of the proletariat some might consider ‘inconvenient’. Arguments about patsocs seem to bring this topic to the forefront of discussion (so I think it might have a positive effect in the end). We really don’t want to alienate comrades of any walk of life, but patsocs don’t really care who they alienate as long as you’re using the correct “anti-imperialist” language that somehow includes American patriotism, and your strategy centers the needs of middle class white traditionalists. They talk a good game about internationalism but I’ve seen people with less staunchly purist views making more attempts at communicating with global socialist movements.
Massive bruh moment, this post section is giving me crazy, you and saddam hussain are the only people here seeing how dumb it is to create such an massive fight over fucking twitter/youtube drama/circlejerking.
The particular group of internet dweebs being critiqued call themselves patriotic socialists or socialist patriots. That’s just kinda how language works. You can’t change it any more than you can stop libs from calling MLs tankies.
Plus there’s more than one kind of chauvinism.
So i was right at first and it’s just an youtube circlejerk… No wonder nobody could answer me when i asked for something concrete, where are the names or the organizations. And to think i was banned for that from GenZedong (at that point it was not much loss but still).
Wait. Wait wait wait wait. Does this mean the most of internet spaces for english speaking ML’s abandon one of the most successful weapons in the arsenal of proletariat, weapon which has been used with great effect since Lenin first formulated the theory of socialism in one country, because of a fucking kneejerk reaction to an YOUTUBE CIRCLEJERK?!?
I mean the problem is a bit bigger than that, as these things always find a way to leak into real life once money gets involved. Their “movement” magnetically attracts reactionary (often white) guys who think converting MAGA chuds by acting like conservatives counts as “organizing” (they’re trying to get something going irl but who knows where it will go), and is more important than reigning in syndicalists and trade unionists to a communist party platform that won’t immediately split on gender/race/religion/sexuality lines (which itself is difficult, but that is how activism in the US tends to manifest). They also really hate queer people and complain about us constantly, which honestly just feels like punching down.
So at this point in time, patsoc is linguistically equivalent to “reactionary white ML” to most socialists. Within the sphere of regular ML communities and organizing, the reaction to this reaction are attempts to learn from theories ultimately based in Gramsci’s work on Hegemony — such that we don’t repeat the mistakes of past movements by ignoring the needs of sections of the proletariat some might consider ‘inconvenient’. Arguments about patsocs seem to bring this topic to the forefront of discussion (so I think it might have a positive effect in the end). We really don’t want to alienate comrades of any walk of life, but patsocs don’t really care who they alienate as long as you’re using the correct “anti-imperialist” language that somehow includes American patriotism, and your strategy centers the needs of middle class white traditionalists. They talk a good game about internationalism but I’ve seen people with less staunchly purist views making more attempts at communicating with global socialist movements.
Massive bruh moment, this post section is giving me crazy, you and saddam hussain are the only people here seeing how dumb it is to create such an massive fight over fucking twitter/youtube drama/circlejerking.
You are absolutely correct