• @personwithakeyboard
    link
    -32 years ago

    Russia is actively warring in Ukraine as we speak and has taken over Crimea to “liberate them”.

    China is refusing to recognize the independence of Taiwan or Hong Kong and actively trying to undermine the authority of the governments elected there.

    Now that’s not to say that Ukraine, Crimea, Taiwan or Hong Kong haven’t felt the influence of the West, far from it. It’s just that the West is not the only ones fucking with them.

    All of these nations are meddling in the internal affairs of other people and they’re doing so for power and profits, not for supporting democracy or to denazify them or for whatever excuses they use.

    • @AgreeableLandscapeM
      link
      4
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Crimea

      Might want to read up on the history of that region. It was ancestrally Russian, and not in some “they were taken over in a war five thousand years ago” way, in a “it was Russian right up until around a hundred years ago” way, the vast majority of the people there are ethnically Russian, and more importantly, they self identify as Russians. They even had a referendum, held by the local government, on whether they’d rather be apart of Russia or Ukraine, a vast majority chose Russia.

      Hong Kong

      That’s a new one. China is colonizing Hong Kong is it? Presumably from their rightful fatherland, the British?

      Taiwan (namely, “not recognising their sovereignty”)

      How is that colonialism? Ireland doesn’t officially recognize Northern Ireland as not their own territory either, is Ireland suddenly colonizing Northern Ireland now? Or, is North and South Korea colonizing each other since they each think the entire Korean peninsula is theirs? Not recognizing the soverignty of some country isn’t colonizing them lol, those are independent political concepts. It’s also funny how you’re okay with Ukraine owning a piece of ancestral Russian land, Crimea, but simply not recognising an independent Taiwanese government is colonialism. Also, the KMT aren’t native there either, they fled there after the communist revolution in China. Indigenous Taiwanese are a thing and was the majority before the KMT came and. Now they’re only around 2% of the island’s population, which, IDK, might lead the rational to conclude that maybe the KMT were the ones that colonized Taiwan, not the CPC?

      I was totally expecting you to mention Tibet or Xinjiang or something lol, and was prepared to to argue against those, but congrats, you’ve blindsighted me with examples I thought no rational person would use as their first picks.

      • @personwithakeyboard
        link
        -1
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        No, my point with all of those is that they all want independence but neither the West or Russia and China will let them be. Why do they have to be under an empire at all?

        And even if Crimea is historically Russian, it’s definitely not purely Russian now, it’s still insanely shitty towards the handful of Ukraineans living there to be cutoff from other people in Ukraine.

        Also, if Crimea (and Donbass) is supposedly fucked over by Ukraine, how is it helping them to bomb the shit out of them instead of Kiev? If you wanna liberate people from a bad government, attack that government, not the region you’re trying to “save”.

        All these wars only create horrible conditions for the people living there and they end up hating everyone, the ones ruling them and the ones trying to save them. The next generations will not be very warm towards Russians or Westerners and the cycle of violence will continue.

        What I would want is for all these empires to stop pushing one culture or another on people that are far away from the capital and central government.

        • @AgreeableLandscapeM
          link
          3
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          No, my point with all of those is that they all want independence but neither the West or Russia and China will let them be.

          Again, that’s a completely different concept to colonialism. Your argument is that China and Russia are colonisers, which have specific definitions and criteria to be called that, yet your examples are of completely irrelevant actions.

          And even if Crimea is historically Russian, it’s definitely not purely Russian now, it’s still insanely shitty towards the handful of Ukraineans living there to be cutoff from other people in Ukraine.

          “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Handful of Ukrainians, who still have the ability of going back to mainland Ukraine, vs the vastly more Russians who want to be apart of Russia.

          It’s the same BS argument that people use against decolonizing places like Hawaii, or North America in general. “What about the white people who live there if you want to give it back to the natives?” Simple! Get the fuck out if they want you the fuck out!

          Also, if Crimea (and Donbass) is supposedly fucked over by Ukraine, how is it helping them to bomb the shit out of them instead of Kiev?

          Bombing Nazi strongholds that are controlling the rest of the region? Hmm, I wonder how that could possibly help liberate them. Also, again, you might want to check up on the scandals of Ukraine/NATO bombing those places and then blaming Russia. Like this.. There are m,any documented cases that, surprise surprise, the West is keeping real quiet about.

          The next generations will not be very warm towards Russians or Westerners and the cycle of violence will continue.

          https://lemmygrad.ml/c/donbass – A lot of direct accounts of people there. They absolutely hate Westerners because why would they not, Russia, not so much.

          What I would want is for all these empires to stop pushing one culture or another on people that are far away from the capital and central government.

          Just because a country has a central government doesn’t mean it’s an empire. Again, empire has an actual political definition and criteria, and like colonialism, isn’t some buzzword you can slap on any country you don’t like.